Raw Discussion and all that

[jimufctna24]

IPunk most probably does believe most of the promo he said last night, espicailly the stuff about The Rock.

 

He'd be a fool if he does, and I don't see Punk as that much of an idiot.

 

I give Punk full credit for the delivery though - as someone said below, he did much better with the material than Styles did with similar stuff a few years ago.

 

Ultimately though this angle won't make a difference to WWE's slow slide down the ratings/buyrates. It'll please us internet fans and confuse a few kids, but it's not the direction they need to be moving to grow. They've thrown us a bone, as they do occasionally. It's hardly the birth of Austin 3:16 or Kevin Nash walking out of the crowd on Nitro. If anything, it merely highlights how corporately dull the product has become.

Yeah actually you may have a point when have I thought about it. He did say "Dwayne" wth such pizzaz like he had genuine venom for him, maybe it is a case me ultimatly being a bit of a mark for the whole promo. Which I kinda like because its rare wrestling can get you wondering such things in this day and age. I like to suspend my disbelief.

 

In the writers debate, no doubt they went over it with Punk, but I would bet my life that Punk came up with a lot of that material. I think he is a bit like Jericho and has some control over his character and pitches his own ideas.

 

Yes though I will give credit to the estiblishment for letting Punk go out there and do that. I knock WWE a lot in recent times for being in a comfort zone and being lazy but this is one time when I could not say that.

[The King Of Swing]

Punk's delivery was fine I hated the material.

[Vamp]

I made my reply before I seen this...

 

I just don't think he deserves that much credit or this promo.

 

...and realised that Vamp, you ARE trying to take away from Punk. Even though he's one of VERY few guys who could deliver that promo with the conviction he did. So don't say that you're not taking away from him. You are. Do the writers deserve credit? Of course they do. They gave him gold as you rightly pointed out. Not everyone can go out and deliver it right though and that's where CM Punk comes in and gets the credit, because he can.

 

I'm trying to take it away from him, he's a good actor, but he doesn't deserve anywhere near the amount of praise he's getting for this. You'd get the impression that he made the segment, he didn't, he was just part of it.

[Reznor]

Really? Because, from where I'm standing, what you've said isn't true at all. Its obviously not just Punk's delivery. When Punk cuts any otherp romo he'll often get praised for it, but its not like it grabs everyone's attention like this has. The internet community cares because it felt different, because of what was said in it and the way it was written. you know as well as I that if all those inside comments were taken out there wouldn't be this big a fuss about it. Don't make yourself look silly. The reason the writer was good was that it allowed context for this inside references, without, hopefully, alienating too much of the audience.

 

Wait a minute, who's saying it was just Punks delivery? Of course it was a well scripted promo too, and if that's the angle you want to come from fine. But to deride Punks delivery, and to come out with the nonsense that you've been spouting in various posts over the last page about how basically anyone on the roster could've delivered it, is just madness. In reality, you could probably count on one hand the active guys on the roster who could manage something like that so convincingly, with such realism. The point is, you could write something oscar worthy, but it doesn't matter how good it is on paper, if you've not got the actor/performer to deliver it, it will have little effect.

 

Your last sentence is actually spot on, but i don't know who you're supposed to be arguing with, as you seem to be reading imaginary comments along the lines of "that script was a bit shit"

[Vamp]

Hardly anyone brought up the wirters at first, the majority of the praise has been Punk centric. So considerign the amount of discussion there's been knocking writers it read, in context, as if people were praising Punk's performence soley and ignoring how well written it is.

 

And I don't buy that it was that difficult to delier to be honest. What made it more believable was Punk's background than his delivery. Like I said, in my opinion, that's a pretty hard promo to screw up. Part of the reason it worked was because Punk's delivery was actually very simple.

[The Cum Doctor]

You'd get the impression that he made the segment, he didn't, he was just part of it.

 

He was the most important part of it. He did what many can't. That's why he deserves the credit.

 

And I don't buy that it was that difficult to delier to be honest.

 

I kinda agree. It's no harder than any other promo. If yer good yer good, and the fact that he did a lot of insider references doesn't really equate to much. For me at least.

 

I think he had SOME freedom with what he said, but the writers gave him a kinda "layout" if you will, and that's what made his cut off seem more genuine. And again, the writers and bookers deserve credit for that, because the cut off just added to it.

[Smegma Cake]

For me? I think it worked on so many levels. It catered to people like us and it catered to the casual fan. Not to mention you get the impression Vince sat in the back thinking 'Let him dig his own grave' but as soon as his promo turned to a personal story, especially about the anti-bullying angle they've been pushing, that's when he's cut off.

 

Brilliant. I seriously hope he's signed a new deal AND this is the start of them doing something interesting with their heels.

 

The main problem I find in the WWE right now is that the heels are very PG, very safe in their words and actions. If you had the babyfaces like John Cena stick to catering to the kids but have the heels do things like CM Punk, the company would be better off at least from a television show perspective.

[King Pitcos]

Have the heels do what things like CM Punk? If Miz and Swagger start going on about Paul Heyman and Johnny Ace every week, it's not going to suddenly overtake the ratings from the attitude era.

[Carbomb]

Have the heels do what things like CM Punk? If Miz and Swagger start going on about Paul Heyman and Johnny Ace every week, it's not going to suddenly overtake the ratings from the attitude era.

 

I'm guessing what he means is that the heels are too anodyne. That's not a fault of PG, though.

[The Invisible Boy]

I thought this week's Raw was great, the Sin Cara and Evan Bourne match was pretty cool and I'd like to see a feud between the two, maybe one of them turning heel. I thought Mark Henry looked great, the Big Show going through the cage moment was cool. HBK and DDP turning up was great too, loved HBK's Sweet Chin Music on the Nexus and McIntyre.

 

But yeah everyone's talking about it, CM Punk's promo was solid, I loved it. I can't for the life of me understand why some people about are seriously asking if it was a real shoot, if it was a real shoot they would have cut to commercials, had the microphone turned off as soon as possible and had Punk stopped and taken out by officials. The way they did it was great though, the sudden cut after the microphone was turned off made it seen as real as they could whilst allowing Punk to have his worked shoot without making it look too worked.

 

I can't wait to see where this storyline is going and it kind of reminds me a bit of an Attitude Era storyline. I have seen next week's spoilers already and without spoiling anything I am on holiday next week but I wish I could see Raw before I head off, I will definately be recording it.

 

This whole thing is making me think if WWE really are letting Punk go they are really stupid, it makes me think that he is actually staying but either way if he wins the Title or doesn't win the Title I see him just having a break and then returning. If he is actually leaving they've just built him up as one of the best guys in wrestling at the moment and he'll be leaving them, it just makes me want to see more and more of him and I think they should definately bring out a CM Punk DVD set, or at least a one disk release whether he is staying or going.

[King Pitcos]

Why did they do two Raws last night anyway?

[Swift89]

Why did they do two Raws last night anyway?

 

They are touring Australia next week. They are taping two Smackdown episodes tonight also.

[The Miz]

Punk is my new fav wrestler. That promo was excellent.

 

He will probably win the title then loose it to a MITB winner though.

[Duke]

Just to add to the punk love, I genuinely laughed out loud when HBK said "we oth don't drink, smoke, do drugs" and punk just went "ANYMORE!"

[Smegma Cake]

Have the heels do what things like CM Punk? If Miz and Swagger start going on about Paul Heyman and Johnny Ace every week, it's not going to suddenly overtake the ratings from the attitude era.

 

Last night excluded, Punk has been the only 'heel' WWE have had in years. A proper heel that you actually hate (Or love to hate). Carbomb understood it and actually explained it better than I did.