Raw Discussion and all that

[benbobjr]

In the late 80/early 90's New Japan had a working agreement with NWA/WCW. Didn't All Japan do at least one joint show with the WWF in the early 90's, or was that a different Japanese organisation?

 

<edit> ahh a search shows it was with SWS that the co-promoted a Japanese show with.

[Reznor]

In the late 80/early 90's New Japan had a working agreement with NWA/WCW. Didn't All Japan do at least one joint show with the WWF in the early 90's, or was that a different Japanese organisation?

Think that was SWS. I think they were kinda a forerunner to WAR. They ran quite a few joint shows afrom around 90-92.

[Vito]

Here's the spoilers for what happens next with the CM Punk situation. (Next week's RAW 4/7 Spoilers)

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

From Cpt. Hawkeye:

 

- John Cena came out said he doesn

[Mr.Showtime]

Here's the spoilers for what happens next with the CM Punk situation. (Next week's RAW 4/7 Spoilers)

There's already a thread for next weeks' spoilers big man, here.

 

I wish DDP came out on stage to his music, not blabbered around with Booker T backstage. Gah.

[mim731]

Here's the spoilers for what happens next with the CM Punk situation. (Next week's RAW 4/7 Spoilers)

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

From Cpt. Hawkeye:

 

- John Cena came out said he doesn

[Ant]

It is a funny development if WWE has 'struck a deal' with ROH, because key personnel have historically applauded the content of shows and performances (JR springs to mind).

 

What's sad is the internet community (and this is WWE's fault, no there's) and perhaps the general wrestling community may be more hyped for this Cena vs Punk match than they were for the Wrestlemania main event.

[Vice]

I'm pretty surprised anyone would think that wasn't a work.

 

Anyway, I absolutely love CM Punk to bits. For me, he's WWE's best all-rounder and someone that I always, always look forward to and enjoy watching. And while that promo was excellent in its delivery, I do feel that it was too smarky and that worked shoots and breaking the fourth wall are just illogical. Thankfully, in the latter respect, it wasn't actually too bad, unlike, say, WCW backstage segments under Russo in which wrestlers would complain about the finishes they were given.

 

A heel running down the company is totally fine though. He's a heel. And we all know the babyface will ultimately triumph.

[dangerously420]

The nightmare thing for me now is that Raw was taped for next week too and the current CM Punk situation has me gripped. It is going to be a mission to not see spoilers to ruin it.

[Vamp]

I guess this can end the whole nonsense about whether scripted promos are as good or not. Because if there was ever a promo that would have been scripted, and felt scripted, it was that. I know Punk'll come out one day and say it wasn't, and that he was given the freedom to do it himself, but I'm not buying it.

 

The problem I have with work shoots is the internet community immediately decides that they're fantastic promos. I'm not convinced that they take a lot of talent. Anyone can make a bunch of inside remarks said on a worldwide television show interesting and exciting to inside fans. Not that its not a good promo, because it is, but that's not down to Punk that's purely down to the person who came up with it. And for Vince being Vince and not being worried about mentioning other promotions because they can't compete. If Punk had managed to get the same result without making inside comments then I'd consider it magical, praise him to the high heavens and talk about how good he is. He just made people get behind a whole bunch of statements that they believe anyway.

[The Cum Doctor]

I think that last night proved that CM Punk will be back after Money in the Bank. Maybe not right away, but they are trying to create something big for when he returns.

[Swift89]

Here's the spoilers for what happens next with the CM Punk situation. (Next week's RAW 4/7 Spoilers)

 

<-- click on 'spoiler' to show/hide the spoiler

From Cpt. Hawkeye:

 

- John Cena came out said he doesn

[Van Dammer]

Not seen the final promo from Punk but he really is excellent and hope this is a build to a big angle to go through the summer rather than an embarrassing departure WWE style. His opening interaction with HBK was superb and he really carries himself as a huge star these days. Its just a shame that the WWE are seeing this all a bit too late.

[The Cum Doctor]

I can't see him being back this summer. He'll take time off and then make a fairly big return. I can't remember being this excited about someone in WWE.

 

The ending of the promo where he goes nuts about being cut off is fantastic. Everything about it. WWE are preparing him for the top now, which isn't where he was when he won the title.

[Oliver]

I guess this can end the whole nonsense about whether scripted promos are as good or not. Because if there was ever a promo that would have been scripted, and felt scripted, it was that. I know Punk'll come out one day and say it wasn't, and that he was given the freedom to do it himself, but I'm not buying it.

 

The problem I have with work shoots is the internet community immediately decides that they're fantastic promos. I'm not convinced that they take a lot of talent. Anyone can make a bunch of inside remarks said on a worldwide television show interesting and exciting to inside fans. Not that its not a good promo, because it is, but that's not down to Punk that's purely down to the person who came up with it. And for Vince being Vince and not being worried about mentioning other promotions because they can't compete. If Punk had managed to get the same result without making inside comments then I'd consider it magical, praise him to the high heavens and talk about how good he is. He just made people get behind a whole bunch of statements that they believe anyway.

 

 

You do have to credit CM Punk for his delivery at least. He makes it so much more captivating. I will agree with you that he's got some fine content to enact though. This promo was a big deal partly because it went against the status quo. But you have to give credit to CM Punk for being a fine actor and gripping performer.

 

I think we're seeing another exciting period, much like last year when we got the original Nexus. And I am interested in what will happen next. I'm hoping that CM Punk will actually go to ROH with the belt.

[The King Of Swing]

Whilst it was a good promo, what is the fucking point of doing that? I didn't think it worked when Heyman did it, and it certainly didn't work when Styles did it.

 

Think about it for a second. You let a top performer go out and state live on your show, all the things the whingers and moaners say about your company. For those mongs out there who already believe all that, all you're doing is cementing those beliefs and presenting them with a hero, who's probably a hero to them anyway, as Heyman and Styles were also.

 

But to the non-smarky, general public audience, it just looks like your show is entirely amateur hour. They're either going to think "wow, what an ungrateful prick" or "maybe he's right, why do I bother watching this show?" Neither reaction is going to help your business in the long run and both make you look bad.

 

This whole promo was an exercise in extreme vantiy by the WWE management, a two fingers up at the audience, both smark and casual. I can't think of a company that has benefited from running itself down or indeed its product. Whenever WCW hit the reset button near the end, it killed another chunk of their audience. When Vince walked out on the last Nitro and ran down the WCW roster, about 1/3 of the wrestling audience turned off and never tuned in again. The worked shoot era of the 90s only served to confuse the whole identity of what pro wrestling was. We knew it was fake, but once they started talking about it as fake it made fans look even more stupid, and then made the company look stupid when a few weeks later they went back to presenting it as real again. There's a reason why breaking the fourth wall in drama is such a no-no, and should only be attempted by those who really understand why - and the WWE are not that good.

 

Great post but I think the Heyman promo avoided being to smarky (it was mostly just a rant at Vince running everyone under) and actually did it's job of portraying Heyman as a bitter prick who didn't really give two fuck about anything (ECW included) but himself.

 

But I agree with what your are saying on the whole Russo "shoot" promo mentality it's shit and makes the company look stupid.