Comic Book and Superhero movie & TV discussion.

[air_raid]

2 hours ago, Dai said:

I think the main issue they have with these Avengers films is that they have a huge bunch of characters from the last few years that people dont really give a shit about. Case in point, there was that leaked picture yesterday with US Agent, the new Falcon and The Thing. Its not exactly like when Thor, Iron Man and Captain America were on screen for the first time, or when The Guardians joined for the first time. No one gives a shit about those, and there seems to be no films between now and then for people to start caring about alot of these b-level movies and TV shows that the films will be featuring. 

Problem is, excusing Majors-related issues they couldn’t help, this saga has been an incoherent mess with what we’d call in wrestling parlance, stop-start booking. I’ve rewatched huge chunks of the Infinity Saga while I’ve been (allegedly) working from home while working my notice at work, and it’s remarkable how things all connect, little details make more sense in hindsight, hints and foreshadowing are mostly paid off (except Mordo turning heel), all of it makes sense and nothing is inconsequential. Well, maybe Dark World but even that introduces the Reality “Stone.”

In comparison, the current saga has introduced characters that won’t matter or be back in all likelihood, or changed plans because of box office or criticism instead of having a start/middle/end that plays out, fairly similar to how the Star Wars sequels feel like three films that don’t successfully tell one story. It’s been all over the shop - films have introduced characters we probably won’t see again, end credit teases that won’t go anywhere and both the big bad of the saga (again, not their fault) AND the heroes that will play a big factor in stopping him won’t have shown up until Phase 6. They haven’t even been able to keep it straight whether it was De Fontaine or Eleanor Bishop who hired Yelena to kill Clint, for fuck’s sake, never mind how many shows or films claiming the Earth isn’t safe “without the Avengers” despite Wilson, Rhodey, Bucky, Doc Strange, Ant-Man, Carol etc still knocking about after EndGame even IF Barton was insisting he’s retired. Dude’s retired more times than Terry Funk, mind.

I suppose we should be grateful we got WandaVision, Agatha and Strange meeting Sir Stewart’s Charles Xavier.

2 hours ago, Carbomb said:

It's almost as if Disney's single-minded, corporate greed has caused them to pump the well dry.

Speaking for the comics fans, the well is far from dry. With all the ground they’ve potentially laid for Young Avengers, the intro of the F4 and rights to the X-Men precipitating a hard reboot in the MCU they’ve got more than enough to knock out three more phases in their sleep. Personally I’d do everything in my power to get as strong a re-imagined Avengers as possible out of Secret Wars, and spend the next saga working to an AvsX pay off.

As an aside, that “Lovejoy to join the MCU” meme still makes me chuckle but I recalled this week that though Lovejoy isn’t in Marvel, Phil Dunphy is.

[DavidB6937]

32 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Speaking for the comics fans, the well is far from dry. With all the ground they’ve potentially laid for Young Avengers, the intro of the F4 and rights to the X-Men precipitating a hard reboot in the MCU they’ve got more than enough to knock out three more phases in their sleep. Personally I’d do everything in my power to get as strong a re-imagined Avengers as possible out of Secret Wars, and spend the next saga working to an AvsX pay off.

As an aside, that “Lovejoy to join the MCU” meme still makes me chuckle but I recalled this week that though Lovejoy isn’t in Marvel, Phil Dunphy is.

Yeah, this is absolutely me. While they'll never reach the coherent heights of everything that lead up to Endgame, there's so much for me to get excited about at the moment with F4, X-Men etc that I'm still really looking forward to everything that's coming. It's now the time to get the deep cuts in there and let the people who have stuck with it all throughout the years enjoy themselves a bit more.

[gmoney]

2 hours ago, Carbomb said:

It's almost as if Disney's single-minded, corporate greed has caused them to pump the well dry.

They're just travelling down the same road that Marvel and DC did many years before them. Funny to see it play out in a different format, with all the same mistakes being made. 

[Dr. Alan Grant]

1 hour ago, air_raid said:

end credit teases that won’t go anywhere

They’ll be crucial to the plot of Secret Wars I tell you, crucial!

 

 

[organizedkaos]

I do find the "hard to keep track" arguments a little weird. I'm not that fussed about Marvel but happily watch most of their output because there's a need for mindless TV sometimes and reality shows make my skin crawl. Last year they put out approximately 16 hours of stuff (rounding up any TV episode to an hour). 

Also they're blockbuster productions, depth is not a priority and also humans are capable of inference.  If a famous actor is playing a role, they're likely an important character. Most of the characters are just remixes of old characters. Characters tend to explictly recap their important plot beats in each new thing they're in.

Also most of the important plot points can be summed up in sentences.

Spoiler

Secret Wars - Maria Hill is dead. Samuel L Jackson is sad, also is fucking an alien

Falcon and Winter Soldier - New Captain America. He isn't sure he can measure up. Doesn't use the drugs

Black Widow - Black widow has a sister played by a famous actor, probably important.

Hawkeye - "Hi I am Black Widow's sister played by a famous actor all my lines reiterate who my character is" - bad attitude, potential for good. There's a bad guy played by a very famous actor.

Captain America Brave New World - All the same plot beats re-iterated from F&WS. There's a new falcon, he's young and enthusiastic

Agatha - Scarlet Witch had a son. He has powers. There's another son out there.

Echo - Bad guy played by famous actor is still alive. 

Daredevil - Bad guy played by famous actor is now mayor, knows who Daredevil is.

 

[organizedkaos]

I will conceed that the spreading thin of it all definitely makes a lot of the new characters people you care less about, i never much cared about the original ones is probably the problem there.

However, they do tend to explicitly try and make you care about them in each thing. Take (Daredevil spoilers)

Spoiler

I didn't recognise Miss Marvel's dad. However his first 3 lines were pretty much "Hi my name is whatever my name is. I have a daughter called Kamala. Also in our neighborhood there's a teenage girl superhero called Miss Marvel". The fact I can't remember his name might be important if it wasn't for the fact his literal only role in any of this is "Miss Marvel's Dad". He then proceeds to be nice to our hero, our hero is shown forming a connection to him to indicate this person is good and important and thus when he's in peril you get about as much give a fuck as you're gonna get in these things

It's like any TV show, particularly from the 22 episode procedural era. You miss an episode you may miss a plot beat but the writers will damn sure try and make sure you know what's important when it comes back. Also the number of important plot beats per year is about 3 things and everything else is 21.5 episodes of general "stuff happens"

[Jazzy G]

 Having all these titles running concurrently is fine when they're published in comics and you can breeze through them in an hour on a Saturday afternoon when you've just got home from Travelling Man/Forbidden Planet etc with that week's releases, but when you have to put aside several hours to keep up to date with things it can become a bit of a chore. 

I've been reading a couple of the Absolute DC titles. The Superman one is interesting. Green Lantern has all kinds of weirdness going on, but Martian Manhunter? Wow. It's just way out there and unlike anything I've read. 

Ultimate Wolverine is interesting. 

On an unrelated note we need Jeff The Land Shark and Devil Dinosaur in the MCU. 

[Dr. Alan Grant]

3 hours ago, Jazzy G said:

On an unrelated note we need Jeff The Land Shark and Devil Dinosaur in the MCU. 

Characters like this (and Gwenpool, She-Hulk, Squirrel Girl) would be perfect for an all ages Disney+ animated show. Similar to when they had Ultimate Spider-Man, Hulk & The Agents Of SMASH and Avengers Assemble. 

[DavidB6937]

Going to see Superman in IMAX tonight. Mostly excited to see what James Gunn has done and also because I adore Rachel Brosnahan.

I'm not too clingy to anything Superman of old so there won't be any raging from me. I'll just be glad to have seen the movie because I feel like I've seen the damn trailers a bazillion times recently.

[Jazzy G]

I'm at the early showing in the morning for it. I did read something this morning where Dean Cain was complaining that Superman was too woke nowadays, which is just making me want to see it even more. 

[DavidB6937]

Ah yes, I remember how much of a cunt Superman was in Lois & Clark. Shagging around. Making casual racist jokes. Hanging out with Jim Davidson.

Those were the good old days.

[JLM]

Superman

Spoiler

Had a lovely time with Superman, as I have with pretty much all of Gunn’s superhero output. The comedy mostly landed, the sentimental beats hit (unexpectedly had a lump in my throat a couple of times! Papa Kent is just lovely) Superman was an all round good egg (he even saved a squirrel!), Krypto was a joy. The film was bright and colourful and lovely to look at. It only had as much angst as the story required and for the schmaltzy bits to feel well earned.  Hoult and Corenswet both excellent, Rachel Brosnahan tremendous as well. I enjoyed all of the Justice Gang stuff, Fillion’s performance and wig both magnificent. 
 

Some of the dialogue clanged a bit, particularly from everyone working for Lex. Didn't love the Jimmy/Eve stuff, was a bit unnecessarily mean spirited and it didn't feel like they brought it around for me by the end.. Got a little bit of CGI action sequence fatigue as is the way of all modern Superhero movies, but even that was on the lower end as they kept plenty of variety and creativity about them: Metamorpho's stuff was very cool and Mr. Terrific’s one in particular was , well, Terrific. 

It felt suitably triumphant and Superman-ish and that was the main thing for me. Lots of great shots of him being a gosh dang hero and the book ending of the movie with the footage of his parents and his chosen parents was very sweet. Cautiously looking forward to Fantastic Four but this one set the bar higher than expected. 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2025 by JLM

[DavidB6937]

I'll form some proper thoughts later but I genuinely wanted to clap and jump for joy at some points in Superman and I really really didn't expect to enjoy it that much.

Obviously I didn't clap because I'm not a twat. But close.

[Jazzy G]

I loved it. Had tears in my eyes several times throughout. It wasn't perfect, but it's the best Superman movie in decades. I almost walked right back into the cinema for the next showing. I'm looking forward to Fantastic Four, but Superman is one of my earliest superhero menories and this did so much to evoke the feelings I had back then so they've got a heck of a bar to overcome. 

[Jazzy G]

Stupid phone. 

Edited July 12, 2025 by Jazzy G
Bloody double posts.