The Fortean/paranormal/conspiracy thread

[BomberPat]

15 hours ago, scratchdj said:

Too loud to be a badger

I'm now going to judge the volume of all noises on their likelihood to be a badger.

 

Just remembered that my Grandad used to tell me that his house was haunted, that lights would come on by themselves, and so on. Years later, found out the bastard had a timer switch on them, but he kept the ghost story up for years.

[SuperBacon]

I don't really believe in ghosts or an afterlife, but my ex is massively into it, and the paranormal, and we've been on some excellent ghosthunts in the last few years. Stand out was Woodchester Mansion in Stroud, which was genuinely creepy. I was always OK with putting my hand up and saying I was a non believer, and treating it all with absolute respect and people would do the same for me. They can be really awesome experiences if anyone is thinking of doing one. The history side of the places was always what interested me, and the mediums and psychics they have with them are really good guys, and not over the top bullshitters like Acorah and his ilk. Plus you get a good mix of people who all treat it fairly seriously.

My ex is pretty 'sensitive' (I think is the right word), when it comes to psychic abilities and I've always encouraged her to pursue it further. Just because I don't believe, doesn't mean she shouldn't. She's had some mad experiences but I can't remember them right now.

When I was around 4 or 5, I used to see colours around people. Like, all the time, and not just dots or sunspots but full on outlines of colour, which my parents thought was well freaky. It just stopped one day, and I always remember seeing my Nan and her being engulfed in a purple shadow wherever she went. Which was a bit strange I suppose.

Oh, one more thing. Years ago we went on a visit to Hampton Court Palace, and I remember one room (think it was a bedroom), being so oppressive and heavy with atmosphere when I entered, that I genuinely couldn't see a thing for a good 20 seconds. That was really weird, and I put it down to hundreds of years of energy being in the place and nothing more.

 

[BomberPat]

3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

That was really weird, and I put it down to hundreds of years of energy being in the place and nothing more.

This is sort of how I feel on ghosts; if there is any truth to any kind of psychic phenomena, or if there's a kind of collective memory, then perhaps some kind of, for lack of a better word, psychic residue builds up over time to the point that it feels almost tangible.

I recognise that this is unscientific guff, obviously, but it's the best I've got, beyond the quite boring, "old places tend to be cold and draughty, so it's not that weird to feel a chill or hear weird noises".

Edited November 1, 2017 by BomberPat

[Carbomb]

16 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

This is sort of how I feel on ghosts; if there is any truth to any kind of psychic phenomena, or if there's a kind of collective memory, then perhaps some kind of, for lack of a better word, psychic residue builds up over time to the point that it feels almost tangible.

I recognise that this is unscientific guff, obviously, but it's the best I've got, beyond the quite boring, "old places tend to be cold and draughty, so it's not that weird to feel a chill or hear weird noises".

I worked a similar theory into a short story I wrote once, that ghosts were effectively "psychic imprints" left in reality from an extreme moment or incident of emotional/psychic disturbance or trauma.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Carbomb

[Astro Hollywood]

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

This is sort of how I feel on ghosts; if there is any truth to any kind of psychic phenomena, or if there's a kind of collective memory, then perhaps some kind of, for lack of a better word, psychic residue builds up over time to the point that it feels almost tangible.

I recognise that this is unscientific guff, obviously, but it's the best I've got, beyond the quite boring, "old places tend to be cold and draughty, so it's not that weird to feel a chill or hear weird noises".

I think if ghosts are anything tangiable, then it's something about the behaviour of sound that we don't understand yet. There are loads of experiences where someone's mam will call them for tea at the same time every night, then one night they'll hear it even when she isn't there. There was a genuinely fascinating bit of footage in a Most Haunted once, where you could clearly hear the piano being played from a room downstairs. When they checked the footage from the locked-off camera in that room, you could hear the piano noise, but the keys weren't moving. Of course, it didn't involve Derek Acorah pretending to faint, so it was never returned to.

Probably everyone's got a story like that, but it's so insignificant and non-ghostly at the time, you don't really think about it. Like hearing your doorbell, only weirdly distant, after it's been rung recently.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Astro Hollywood

[SpursRiot2012]

I think you're onto something there. But that's it's purely scientific, but as you say just something we don't understand about sound, and perhaps time. Like some kind of...past echo or future echo or some shit. 

[Carbomb]

5 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said:

I think you're onto something there. But that's it's purely scientific, but as you say just something we don't understand about sound, and perhaps time. Like some kind of...past echo or future echo or some shit. 

The "future echo" thing is an intriguing topic - the whole idea of clairvoyancy and premonition is fascinating when put through the filter of scientific speculation. Whilst not giving credence to things like tarot and I-Ching, at the same time, when we consider that physicists have discussed the nature of time and "anti-time", i.e. that time could possibly be a flow of energy and therefore it would be possible for there to be a flow in the opposite direction (there's even a reference to it in the last ever Star Trek: TNG episode), it gives rise to the idea that, if this indeed the case, there might be human beings out there with some random mutation in their brains or sensory systems that enable them to perceive or record events in anti-time in the same way our memories enable us to perceive and record events in time.

As a potential concept, it's great to discuss.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Carbomb

[BomberPat]

That's an interesting theory, I like it. There's so much about the brain we don't understand (I don't mean in the pseudo-science, "did you know we only use X% of our brain?" sense), and I'm a firm believer in a kind of genetic memory or instinct; some evolutionary reason why we respond to certain things in certain ways, or ingrained behaviour that's the result of some evolutionary backwater no longer relevant for modern life.

I wonder if your ideas around sound could fall somewhere into that - like dogs knowing what time you're meant to come home from work, or sensing that something's different even when you're not aware of it yourself. I don't want to get all hippy-dippy and start talking about it in terms of "energy", but there's some intangible there, even if it's just some primal instinct/memory we don't understand or, on the other end of the spectrum, crossed neurological wires convincing us we see or hear something when there's nothing there. I've had my fair share of auditory hallucinations, and a handful of visual ones, but have enough of an understanding of what's going on in my head to make sense of it and rationalise it - but it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assign supernatural or paranormal origins to them, and I wonder how common that is.

That's not suggesting that people who see ghosts are mental and hallucinating in any vivid sense, just that there's so much going on in how we process external stimuli that there are bound to be hiccups from time to time. Throw in the expectation of seeing a ghost, i.e., if it happens while in a "haunted house", and if said haunted house has something about it (atmospheric conditions, or whatever) that's likely to trigger whatever this, and it starts to add up. Throw in other explanations - the double-exposure blur on an old photo that, because our brains are inclined towards recognising patterns, we see as a human shape, and so on - and I think every ghost story or paranormal encounter must have a rational explanation, it's just that our knowledge isn't quite there yet.

 

12 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

The "future echo" thing is an intriguing topic - the whole idea of clairvoyancy and premonition is fascinating when put through the filter of scientific speculation. Whilst not giving credence to things like tarot and I-Ching, at the same time, when we consider that physicists have discussed the nature of time and "anti-time", i.e. that time could possibly be a flow of energy and therefore it would be possible for there to be a flow in the opposite direction (there's even a reference to it in the last ever Star Trek: TNG episode), it gives rise to the idea that, if this indeed the case, there might be human beings out there with some random mutation in their brains or sensory systems that enable them to perceive or record events in anti-time in the same way our memories enable us to perceive and record events in time.

As a potential concept, it's great to discuss.

I don't really go in for clairvoyancy or anything like that, but I like this spin on it.

Personally, I think it's more to do with how perceptive we are of our surroundings, and of other people. Writing off the obvious charlatans, or those who make "predictions" vague enough that they're meaningless beforehand but sound significant after the fact (take Nostradamus, for example, allegedly predicted just about everything, but people only ever pointed it out afterwards - pretty useless predictions!), I think most people who seem to show some kind of clairvoyant or psychic ability are just people sensitive enough to what's going on around them that they can make a reasonable guess at what's going on in someone else's life, or what's likely to happen, extrapolating from the data available to them.

A friend of mine does Tarot readings, and his knowledge of the meaning and history of the cards is practically encyclopaedic. It's great fun, but he makes it clear as he's doing it that he's not predicting the future - that you ask the cards a question, the reader tells you what the cards mean, and any answer that you come to is your own. He sees it as like an ink blot test, in that the images remain the same but different people reach different conclusions from them, and it's a means to determine your own mind, not to be told what to do. I actually think he's refused to do readings for people who thought he could actually use them to tell them the future or what to do with their lives, because he didn't want to be misleading these people.

[Carbomb]

The Tarot thing has always been odd. Back when I was a teen, I was fascinated by all this stuff, like Aleister Crowley, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, etc., and one of the things that always seemed to come up was that those who were truly and deeply involved in this sort of thing looked down on the use of Tarot as a means of fortune-telling, that they were meant to be used for higher purposes, such as psychic foci for meditation, implements in ceremonial magic, means of unveiling hidden and arcane knowledge, and so on. Of course, it's all bollocks, but one thing I always liked was the design culture surrounding Tarot decks, like the classic Ryder-Waite, Crowley's own Thoth deck, the Witches' Tarot, the Golden Dawn deck, the Aquarian; the Thoth Tarot in particular is beautiful, very Art Deco in aesthetic.

[BomberPat]

Yeah, I have Crowley's book of Thoth, which has illustrations of his card, and I have a set of the Ryder-Waite designs too. The friend I mentioned will refer to different designs and interpretations as he's doing his spiel, it's great stuff - as much stage patter as anything, really.

I'm not surprised it was looked down upon - a mixture of the "entry level" mystical stuff it still seems now, and the fact that a lot of the Golden Dawn types were basically posh boys' clubs, and as much focused on being an exclusive social club and keeping things a mystery for their own ends as it any sense of exploring the unknown; Tarot fortune telling belonged to gypsies and commoners, so naturally the secret society types would look down their noses on that, because it was a type of mysticism that anyone could have access to, rather than relying on their society for access. Like Alan Moore's quote about the problem with organised religion, "it introduced middle management to spirituality".

[waters44]

Not really a creepy story, but one that has changed me from a sceptic to someone who believes there may be some sort of afterlife -

I am an accountant and in my last job I had to travel around the country working at different clients. I had one client in Basingstoke that I had to go to for two days every quarter. After about a year one of the member's of staff at the clients (from now on I will refer to this woman as D) said to me "I would like to tell you something, please don't be scared". Obviously that's a pretty weird thing to hear but of course asked her to carry on. She said "Marion would like to talk to you".

I didn't know any Marion's and had no idea what she was on about. First thought was maybe it was her boss or something and I had done something wrong. She then continued "She has asked me to tell you that she is ok and she is with Carol".

I lost it here as everything clicked into place. My Auntie Carol died in the early 2000s and my Grandma, Vera Marion, died in 2007. She was never the same after Carol (her daughter) died - it feels to me like Grandma died of a broken heart. But anyway back to the story.

I basically said to D "what the fuck?" and she said she can talk to people who have passed on. We then talked for the next hour and I will try to summarise how the conversation went, as there are a few things I find amazing, and some that downright don't work -

I asked her why Marion and not Vera, I never called Grandma Marion, and as far as I know no one else did. D couldn't answer that.

D said over the last few times I had been there Grandma had told her things and she had written it down. It included -

She missed her wooden chair in the kitchen where she would sit and watch the birds - TRUE (easy to make up? probably?)
She missed her house, and D explained to me that the house had a massive front garden and no back garden - TRUE (easy to makeup? how many houses have a massive front garden and no back garden? not many?)
She is sorry we were not allowed in the lounge - TRUE, we had to stay in the kitchen if Grandad was watching TV in the lounge (easy to make up? not sure)
She likes my house, and D described my house and randomly my bathroom perfectly - (easy to get right? perhaps I told her about my bathroom during one of my visits? difficult to believe but possible)
D also told me that Grandma visits and watches over my daughter, and that my daughter sees her.

Now the last point is very very easy for somebody to make up, BUT there is one interesting thing here, and this is the bit that gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. There was a long running joke at home between my partner and I that was me having an affair with a mysterious lady. This was because whenever anyone asked Ruby where Daddy was she would always, without fail, say "with the lady". She would walk round the house and randomly say "Daddy and the lady" whilst playing. This went on for about a year when she was two or three. Was this just something she did, or was Grandma there? I am probably putting two and two together and coming up with five, but I like to think my Grandma was there looking over us

There were a few things she said that didn't work - apparently someone called Bert wanted to talk to me but I couldn't work out who that was. Apparently he was an old cricket coach, but I asked a few mates and no one recognised a Bert from cricket. The whole Marian, not Vera thing bothers me as well.

Personally though I am sold that she spoke to my Grandma, mainly because WHY would she make it up? She asked me to keep it secret, she asked me to keep her name secret as when people find out they constantly badger her, she wouldn't accept any money or anything, and when she couldn't answer one of my questions she just said "don't know", she didn't try to make anything up or string me along. It really felt like this ability to talk to the dead was a hindrance - a nuisance she could do without.

Hopefully its true, and hopefully I will see my Grandma again one day

[Kookoocachu]

Does anyone have any "Twilight Zone" stories? As in loads of really totally bizarre shit happening at the same time. 

[Arn Anderson's Darb]

I've had a couple of weird experiences back when I was in my late teens. My mum took a live-in manager job in a pub and I didn't want to live there, so she let me stay at our family home on my own. Being 18 at the time, it obviously just became a place to drink with my mates and try to invite girls round. During this time I did spend a fair few nights alone in the house which I really liked as I've always been quite happy in my own company. I was perfectly fine, except for being in the downstairs hallway. I always moved through that area a bit quicker but never knew why.

Need to mention that this house has a window in the living room that looks out into the hallway for some reason. I grew up in this house and never knew what that window was for.

First proper creepy instance was when I had some mates round, including a guy called Dave who is a bit of a Wicca type, but never talks about what it entails. All night we were drinking, chatting and laughing, except for Dave, who I noticed spent most of the night sitting on the floor, staring at that window with a really strange smile on his face. He never, ever set foot in the house again.

Few months later I got a puppy. A puppy that would go from sleeping peacefully to barking frantically at that window at any given moment, or occasionally just wake up very suddenly and stare at the window for 20 - 30 seconds at a time.

After THAT, I met a girl who used to stay over all the time. As soon as she was around, I could swear that on at least two occasions I stood at the top of the stairs and saw the head and shoulders of a fucking MASSIVE shadowy figure standing just inside the front door. I never told anyone, but two friends mentioned eerily similar sightings in the same place. Only ever happened when this girl was in the house and I never saw it again after we broke up.

A few years later and long after I moved out I brought this up with Dave and asked if he thought my house might be haunted. He replied without a second's hesitation or a hint of a joke,

"I know your house is haunted... why do you think I've never been back?"

My mum still lives there. I still don't like that hallway. And her dog stares out the window. She thinks I'm talking shit even though she watches Most Haunted and everything.

[Arch Stanton]

Great story! Did you not press Dave on what he saw, or felt or whatever?

[Kookoocachu]

I want to know more from Dave.