Modern wrestling annoyances (rational or not)

[westlondonmist]

2 hours ago, garynysmon said:

Yeah, it would do wrestling and wrestlers the world of good to stop and think if doing these (sometimes very risky) moves is actually going to get them a major pop nowadays, or are they just doing it out of habit?

A suicide dive, or any kind of dive to the outside of the ring, is probably a very dangerous move to perform. I'm sure any wrestler can appreciate a good dive when they see one and it pops the lads backstage.

But think of it from the audience's point of view. What do we see? Unless its timed to perfection its a move pulled out at every ppv by every single company, its a bunch of people awkwardly standing around quite clearly waiting to catch someone.

I don't think it even looks particularly thrilling. And anyway, its so overdone that it doesn't excite a crowd any more, so you're putting your life at risk for something that's not really even worth it.

Now, even being the nostalgia nerd as I am, there were ridiculous fake-looking moves in the 90's that I'm glad have disappeared. Think of a slingshot when a wrestler was on the apron and their opponent tugged on the ropes and they're forward flip over the top rope. Even a catapault is pretty ridiculous when you think about it.

But for my money, I detest any moves that take an age to set up and the 'victim' is so clearly assisting the 'assailant' and putting themselves in the correct position. Half the time the 'victim' is doing most of the work!

Rey Mysterio's 619 was bad for that, a wrestler would just happen to fall face first on the second rope for Rey Mysterio, when they'd just fall to the canvas for someone else. 

@Ironic Indie Lad Interesting that you mention attention spans. Yet generally speaking, match lengths feel longer nowadays than at any point I've been watching wrestling.

But it feels a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. 

Are fans wanting much more in-ring stuff week-to-week over everything else, or have we just spawned a generation or two of wrestlers who are better in-ring at the expense of their ability to do an off the cuff promo or the strength of their character?

I'm amazed WWE Speed didn't get over more than it did tbh. I found myself watching a lot of those.

Strangely the high spot style got me back into wrestling in the late 90s. It wasn't just that, 98 wrestlers were cooler than 95 wrestlers in general. However over the years I've sort of become quite numbed towards it and I just can't react to it and the reliance on high spots turns, me off. Although if you watch a cruiser division with Liger, Eddie, Rey, Chavo, Juve, Malenko and Jericho the high spot matches then actually age well because they usually have some essence of story.

 

Not just stupid spots like a suicide dive, which is totally not worth the risk. It's Moxley bleeding, we get it mate your a headcase. 

[tiger_rick]

3 hours ago, garynysmon said:

Are fans wanting much more in-ring stuff week-to-week over everything else, or have we just spawned a generation or two of wrestlers who are better in-ring at the expense of their ability to do an off the cuff promo or the strength of their character?

I've only been an AEW viewer for the majority of this decade but this doesn't ring true at all. There's a clear emphasis on wrestling matches to be the crux of the show - mad concept, eh? - but, to suggest that's instead of good promos and character work isn't true or fair. AEW has absolutely excelled at brilliant promos for years. There's promo time given to people up and down the card and loads of character work. 

[tiger_rick]

4 hours ago, Ironic Indie Lad said:

I just find the "modern" style absolutely tiresome. 

There are so many guys up and down the card in major companies that are just too similar for me. So many guys do superkicks, running knee's, Canadian destroyers, "cutters" (the most overused move in YEARS), springboards etc. So many people seem to only be able to structure a match based on kicking out of big moves. 

I find it completely exhausting and played out. Too many guys who got a big stiffy over 2010s PWG shows and just do that. It's honestly such a barrier for me. I dont know who is seeing 20 second clip on twitter of two guys doing Ospreay/Ricochet stuff in 2026 and being amazed by it. Never thought I would see the day where even WWE social media is posting reels basically going "look how awesome this ludicrous highspot is lmao". Maybe that is just where we are now with attention spans. 

Maybe I am just old and fulfilling the "things used to be better" destiny. But I really want to see selling, story and struggle. Bret Hart v Steve Austin from Survivor Series 1996 is one of my favourite matches of all time. I dont see anyone in the business today that could work that style of match.

I like this point and for the really good stuff, I think it's true. It is really missing that sense of a fight that you got from really good stuff like the Final 4 in Feb 1997 and Bret and Steve at Mania 13. That stuff is all-time great though, hence I still bang on about it constantly almost 30 years on. 

There are still really good matches between top guys. They're different. They rarely feel like a fight but are well put together and hit the big spots that make you feel something and deliver on what's expected of the match. I guess it's a natural evolution. I blame Shawn Michaels.

What you rarely get now are fucking appalling matches. Most people on TV are athletic enough and polished enough to have a good 8-10 minutes with almost anyone else that will have some good spots that get fans up and give the commentators a reason to sell excitement. I love 1997 but you're rarely getting Godwinns vs. LOD or DOA vs. Los Boricuas levels of absolute drek these days.

I still like the really good stuff. I don't wanna be all old man shouting at clouds about it. I wouldn't still watch otherwise. I'd just rather there was a bit less concern about hitting a high spot and standing in the right place for the cameras and more about convincing the people you're in a fight and you're working incredibly hard to fend off the other person and get one up on them.

[Lorne Malvo]

20 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

What you rarely get now are fucking appalling matches.

And for those of you who do want that, Ross Von Erich is still working. 

[NeverYield]

Things like Becky Lynch blatantly waiting for Sol Ruca to do her move off the ropes and it's just so obvious, even though Sol botched the spot Becky waiting like a right lemon made it all the more painful on the eyes.

I know this isn't exactly a "modern" thing but I will say I have seen some absolutely awful cases of this in recent years, and I know this has been brought up too on this forum in other threads but it's absolutely mind boggling how anyone, backstage mind, or performing talent could think this looks remotely good. Suspension of disbelief? Yeah, we don't know about that.

Any sort of move off the top looks much better when they work it in a way where the opponent is looking like they don't expect it, but lingering about like a bad smell waiting for someone to leap on you with reckless abandon is ridiculous. 

[NeverYield]

59 minutes ago, Ralphy said:

While doing a little turn on the catwalk (canvas) to get into position to receive the move while blatantly obvious to everyone in attendance and watching on TV.

The entire moonsault from the top onto a pack of wrestlers who all hug one another and again, blatantly adjust the position to receive it, ugh

For me, I loved a lot of the spotty stuff back in the day, and high flying wrestling has always been my favourite, but these days, even maybe as long as ten years, I feel it's way too much, over the top and frankly, spoiled some aspects of wrestling I used to love

One issue is, much like most ladder matches in WWE now, everything possible by the human body in those matches have been done to death, so little reaction is often the case due to apathy

Less is more, if a certain wrestler is new to you, or TV, and you see them do double figures of high flying spots in a short match, you will expect that, and more each time, so almost everything they do seems meaningless and they will have to do more and more just to get the same reaction as doing the occasional high flying move to get the same reaction, hardly good for a long career

The moonsault one is another one definitely haha. Yeah I did enjoy all the spotty stuff many moons ago, and I still enjoy watching some Lucha stuff, and while ridiculousness bleeds into all facets of pro wrestling the Luchas are better with all that stuff. 

Yeah it definitely reaches a point where you are planning a match and think what can we do that's new, it's hard to do something that people haven't seen plenty of times before.

I agree on less is more too, a point Ospreay doesn't understand in the slightest haha! He's game as they come but some of the bumps he's taken in the short time he's been back have been outrageous.

[Merzbow]

A lot of people like to talk about how Ring of Honor inspired this modern flippy style but let's be honest, most of it is just taken from old CZW Best of The Best tournaments and I'm not entirely against it..

[NeverYield]

CZW was the bollocks, allow me to sound hypocritical here but when I watch back old CZW I'm not against what they do either, 🤣 but a lot of what they did was just such carnage it was a whole spectacle that took you out of any rhyme or reason way of thinking, when you've got a highly produced TV show and someone blatantly waiting for a spot it can come across a lot different than a grittily produced ordeal. If that Shlak and Gage and CZW crossover with WXW or whatever it is does come to the UK I'd like to go. CZW had a bit of everything tbf, the standard of wrestling in a lot of their matches that weren't deathmatches is vastly underrated imo.

[Merzbow]

4 minutes ago, Ralphy said:

Johnny storm vs Jody Fleisch

Yeah that was so ahead of it's time, I think everyone expected more from them going forward but neither really got to the top.

Thinking about the major influences of this current breed and I really feel like Super Dragon is up there, above many much bigger names like Danielson and Punk from the era. PWG in general doesn't get talked about enough seeing as so many of the top crop of the last decade came directly from there.

[Cannibal Man]

I feel like PWG is the template for what's happened, really, in my opinion. NXT's boom was all PWG, AEW came from PWG, by the time PWG was getting rave reviews in about 2009 onwards ROH and CZW and IWA MS were having to catch up to any of the hype tons of PWG stuff ended up getting. Not that those places didn't have their part to play or anything, the fast and varied ring action and the old 'supercard' nature of show line ups goes all the way back, especially in some of those weeks long IWA MS shows in about 2004 and 2005, but specifically what it all is now feels like what PWG was doing. When you get an entire wrestling talent pool full of people who grew up loving wrestling, watching it, watching tons of mad shit and sharing it with each other then becoming wrestlers and that being the only people in wrestling then that's where it's all shifting to. I love it myself!

Edited May 5 by Cannibal Man

[TheBurningRed]

10 minutes ago, Ralphy said:

WWE easily 

I like Super Dragon, but not a chance he would’ve ended up there ever. 

[Slapnut]

Name changes when someone joins WWE. I know why it's done from a business perspective, but from a kayfabe perspective why would Bryan Danielson, a world renowned wrestler, decide to change his name to Daniel Bryan? Why would Walter decide to go by Gunther instead? There's hardly ever an actual explanation to why this happens. 

[Chris B]

Whenever I see a clip of WWE on social media, I can't believe how much the area around the ring looks like a soft play area. The barriers, the way it's all pushed together and curves around everything - it makes the commentary desk look like just another part of the playset. 

I don't mind the idea that it's a repeatable setup, but it's all so large and soft looking.

[organizedkaos]

On 5/5/2026 at 10:15 AM, Ironic Indie Lad said:

Maybe I am just old and fulfilling the "things used to be better" destiny. But I really want to see selling, story and struggle. Bret Hart v Steve Austin from Survivor Series 1996 is one of my favourite matches of all time. I dont see anyone in the business today that could work that style of match.

I do think that's a bit it. As someone who fucking loves wrestling when it's filled with ridiculous Wuxia style moves I must admit this attitude might even fall into "modern wrestling annoyances" (in the nicest possible way). Yep, you've absolutely got a creative industry who's style has changed but...

• It's changed in line with what a large majority of fans want
• Casual fans love this stuff. They know it's fake, do something impressive rather than work a headlock for 5 minutes to sell "the struggle"
• The wrestlers are often still selling the struggle and story of the match. They just also do crazy flippy moves. This is basically action movie logic. John Wick can be near death and then nail some terrific final move to off the bad guy. No-one claims he didn't sell the 23 bullet wounds enough in the final scene of the film, they're punching the air because he pushed through to do something spectacular.

The story of wrestling hasn't changed, the vocabulary has. 

I feel for you if the style you enjoy is no longer produced.  I just find people (not specifically you here, I'm talking to larger point) tend to rail on about "they don't need to do this stuff" "wrestling is good without it" as if it's some sort of objective truth. The reality is

1. They do
2. It's better with it
3. Sorry

[AshC]

Thing is, I can appreciate great, fast, flippy modern matches. But when I watched that very same match, Bret vs Austin at Survivor Series, recently, it blew away anything I've seen in the past year. 

I hate the reverse huracanrana, I think it's illogical and looks rotten. A wrestler told me it always gets a pop though, inferring that's why it ends up being used so much. 😔