Wrestlemania - this and that

[The Reverend]

I know we've probably done this before, but with the 'Show of Shows' fast approaching we've probably all been watching past Wrestlemanias (thank you Netflix) and this is just a threads to stick in random observations, facts and the like. 

To start: 

With everything going on in the world, and the amount of daily stories about whatever crazy sh't he's getting up to, it's actually hard to put supreme world mentalist Donald Trump is just there chilling at ringside for Wrestlemania IV and V. Even more so when you're used to him waffling some right off the wall stuff and yet he has a pretty civilised little chat with Sean Mooney as part of the broadcast at V. You never could've guessed it. 

Where did IV go so wrong? Peak WWF, amazing roster of performers yet it fell flat. I know some of the blame can be put onto the venue and audience, but actually a lot of the wrestlers seem utterly uninterested and can't be bothered. 

The ringcarts for III and VI - they need to bring these back. Simple but very cool. 

Wrestlemania VIII - did they ever use the Hoosier Dome again? It's a cracking venue, so light and really shows off the audience they had in there. Shame the aisle was a bit on the wonk or otherwise we could've had the ringcarts back. 

Wrestlemania IX - I know a lot of people don't like it, but the way I've learnt to love it is actually think of the WWF at the time as not so much as a major promotion but as a Smoky Mountain type independent. The show actually then seems quite impressive. 

Wresttlemania VII - another one which I never really liked but now think as one of the best. Great line-up with some real gems packed out with fairly inoffensive filler. 

[Ironic Indie Lad]

2 minutes ago, The Reverend said:

With everything going on in the world, and the amount of daily stories about whatever crazy sh't he's getting up to, it's actually hard to put supreme world mentalist Donald Trump is just there chilling at ringside for Wrestlemania IV and V. Even more so when you're used to him waffling some right off the wall stuff and yet he has a pretty civilised little chat with Sean Mooney as part of the broadcast at V. You never could've guessed it.  

He was also just sitting near UKFF legend @dopper at WMXX.

Just think, he could have killed him then and there and changed the whole timeline. Yes it would have ruined a classic main event but that got ruined a few years later anyway. 

[LaGoosh]

The opening moments of the main event of 15 are so perfect. Austin comes down to the ring, goes to do his first corner pose and The Rock is staring him down, trash talking him the whole time, then Austin goes to do the second corner but Rock steps in his way, Austin goes to walk past him but The Rock moves to keep blocking him, staring pure murder at him, looking like he's about to explode, and Austin starts talking trash back and then they just fucking go for it and start throwing haymakers. When they so often go for long, dramatic stare downs it actually worked way better to have this abrupt, intense and violent opening.

[Dai]

5 minutes ago, The Reverend said:

With everything going on in the world, and the amount of daily stories about whatever crazy sh't he's getting up to, it's actually hard to put supreme world mentalist Donald Trump is just there chilling at ringside for Wrestlemania IV and V. Even more so when you're used to him waffling some right off the wall stuff and yet he has a pretty civilised little chat with Sean Mooney as part of the broadcast at V. You never could've guessed it. 

 

Even more crazy than this is that he was chilling, watching the entire main UFC card just 4 days ago. 

[Supremo]

Considering how locked in and wildly entertaining The Rock became in those final few weeks before Wrestlemania 40, after they’d pivoted to the Tag Match, I’m always fascinated to imagine what would have happened and how he would have performed if they’d stuck with Rock vs. Roman as the planned main event.

It’s wild to think he went from his weird, daft Family Tree PowerPoint Presentation to those incredible Instagram promos where he’d be effing and jeffing like a maniac. If he isn’t slightly embarrassed when Cody out-politics him, do we even get Final Boss Rock? Or does he remain cornball loser Dwayne? 

[Supremo]

Having finished Bret’s audiobook, and because I’m clearly a glutton for punishment, I went back and rewatched Bret vs. Vince from Wrestlemania 26.

It confirmed what I’ve always thought. For the small minority who actually read Bret’s book, there’s at least a germ of a good idea here. By the end of the book you’re left thinking the entire Hart family is bunch of bitter nutcases, all serving at the altar of Vince McMahon, all willing to backstab and sell each other out if it means someone might get a job in the Fed. To Bret, I can see how he’d like the match to act as an addendum, where it turns out they’re all finally on the same page, against Vince.

Whole thing was destined to fail though. It’s immediately clear no-one recognises who any of these people are, or what story they’re trying to play on. And then as if it couldn’t get any worse, they do the big reveal that they’re all on Bret’s side immediately, killing whatever drama there may have been.

Not to worry though. Maybe they’ll tell an interesting story in the match itself, yeah? No. Ten straight minutes of Vince getting beaten up. No heat. No comeback. The longest ten minutes you’ll ever experience in your life. Bret keeps teasing the Sharpshooter, which gets a reaction more of out people hoping it’s the finish than anything else, but then he goes back to beating Vince up even more. Absolutely fucking torturous. Feels like it lasts years.

I assume this was all forced upon them when they realised Bret couldn’t take any damage or else void his insurance claim with The Loyds of London, but either way it might be the worst psychology of any match in Wrestlemania history. It genuinely nearly turns Vince babyface. You just feel sorry for him. Crazy to see such a badly worked match from Bret, who was probably the best of all time at putting together a masterpiece. Also wild to think Bret features in two Wrestlemania matches that feature a double turn, first with Stone Cold at Mania 13 and then this pile of shite with Vince.

Have there been worse Wrestlemania matches? Probably. But for the story they had, and as easy as it could have been, this is up there as the worst I can remember. Absolutely fucking dreadful. With tears in my eyes.

Edited April 18 by Supremo

[AshC]

Bulldog vs Warlord is the most underrated Mania match ever, probably. Fantastic!

[TheScarlettChad]

17 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Having finished Bret’s audiobook, and because I’m clearly a glutton for punishment, I went back and rewatched Bret vs. Vince from Wrestlemania 26.

It confirmed what I’ve always thought. For the small minority who actually read Bret’s book, there’s at least a germ of a good idea here. By the end of the book you’re left thinking the entire Hart family is bunch of bitter nutcases, all serving at the altar of Vince McMahon, all willing to backstab and sell each other out if it means someone might get a job in the Fed. To Bret, I can see how he’d like the match to act as an addendum, where it turns out they’re all finally on the same page, against Vince.

Whole thing was destined to fail though. It’s immediately clear no-one recognises who any of these people are, or what story they’re trying to play on. And then as if it couldn’t get any worse, they do the big reveal that they’re all on Bret’s side immediately, killing whatever drama there may have been.

Not to worry though. Maybe they’ll tell an interesting story in the match itself, yeah? No. Ten straight minutes of Vince getting beaten up. No heat. No comeback. The longest ten minutes you’ll ever experience in your life. Bret keeps teasing the Sharpshooter, which gets a reaction more of out people hoping it’s the finish than anything else, but then he goes back to beating Vince up even more. Absolutely fucking torturous. Feels like it lasts years.

I assume this was all forced upon them when they realised Bret couldn’t take any damage or else void his insurance claim with The Loyds of London, but either way it might be the worst psychology of any match in Wrestlemania history. It genuinely nearly turns Vince babyface. You just feel sorry for him. Crazy to see such a badly worked match from Bret, who was probably the best of all time at putting together a masterpiece. Also wild to think Bret features in two Wrestlemania matches that feature a double turn, first with Stone Cold at Mania 13 and then this pile of shite with Vince.

Have there been worse Wrestlemania matches? Probably. But for the story they had, and as easy as it could have been, this is up there as the worst I can remember. Absolutely fucking dreadful. With tears in my eyes.

It's a lazy take but Bret vs Vince was overbooked. All they needed was wrestling with shadows. And the match go ten minutes. Bret locks in the sharpshooter. Vince taps. Job done. The Hart family being there to murder Vince was his weird way of atoning for the screw job when all it needed was him tapping out. Oh and he should've then retired from being an active member of the roster. The Mr. . McMahon character began with Bret screwed Bret. It should've ended with him tapping out to Bret. 

[BomberPat]

On the last point, it was the end of Vince as an active wrestler - he didn't have another match until that bizarre mess with Pat McAfee a couple of years ago - so I'm sure the point was always supposed to be things going full circle with Bret beating him.

I agree about the germ of a good idea. But you can't make the crux of a massive Wrestlemania match the involvement of fucking Keith and Smith Hart, let alone trusting Bruce Hart to not try and overshadow the whole deal to put himself over. It's a match between a non-wrestler and a wrestler who can't take bumps, so they obviously figured they had to throw a ton of bells and whistles at it, and I imagine Stu Hart going into the Hall of Fame that year made them think getting the whole family involved was the right move, but all that does is draw attention to how most of the rest of the Harts are weirdo nobodies and no-hopers, and remind the audience that none of the Harts and Hart family associates they actually like are around any more, which doesn't bode well for what should be a cathartic feelgood match.

Aside from the Hart family of it all, they were trying to pay off a storyline born of the Montreal Screwjob, without half of the principle players - Shawn Michaels was written out of it from the night Bret came back, and Earl Hebner was off in TNA. You can easily salvage a Bret vs. Vince angle without that, and the story should have been Vince getting his comeuppance, and I'm sure that's what they were intending, but you can't do that kind of "heel gets beaten up by babyface for an extended period" match structure in a company where the actual wrestling matters as little as it does in WWE, where there's no blood, and when the majority of the people involved in giving the heel their comeuppance have had no real on-screen interaction with them at all. If this were today, it would get the full "Avengers Assemble" parade of babyface introductions, with everyone Vince had fucked over taking it turns to walk out to their entrance music and hit their finisher on him. It would still be shit, but it would have a built-in guaranteed string of audience reactions, and would probably land the feeling of catharsis a lot better than Bruce hobbling around in ref shirt and aviators.

They really sucked at this kind of thing that should be a home run around that time too - I think the following year is when they decide that Michael Cole vs. Jerry Lawler is a match that needs a prolonged heat segment of Lawler selling for Cole, and the non-wrestler heel going over, rather than it just being a move-for-move remake of the first Lawler/Kaufman match, of King just annihilating Cole with a Piledriver to send the crowd home happy for shutting him up.

[tiger_rick]

On 4/18/2026 at 4:38 PM, AshC said:

Bulldog vs Warlord is the most underrated Mania match ever, probably. Fantastic!

I like that too. I also like Warlord vs. Anvil from the UK Rampage tape. And I love the SummerSlam 91 opener. Warlord was alright by me.

[Roy]

On 4/18/2026 at 4:29 PM, Supremo said:

I assume this was all forced upon them when they realised Bret couldn’t take any damage or else void his insurance claim with The Loyds of London, but either way it might be the worst psychology of any match in Wrestlemania history.

As much as I love Bret Hart, the whole WrestleMania 26 thing was a really bad idea. I don't think any of it was forced upon them so to speak; they were aware of Bret's insurance status and the limitations it places on his involvement, as they were with Curt Hennig in 1992 and Rick Rude in 1997. That being said, there were a million different ways to go about having something approximating a match without needing to convolute the thing. WWE seems to love shooting itself in the foot anytime they are handed anything approximating what people would actually want to see.

[JNLister]

WrestleMania 21 with Batista and Cena winning their first titles is now technically one of the early WrestleManias.

[Rockbus2]

5 hours ago, JNLister said:

WrestleMania 21 with Batista and Cena winning their first titles is now technically one of the early WrestleManias.

It will always be-

1-9= the early Wrestlemanias

10-16= the shit Wrestlemanias

17 onwards = the modern Wrestlmanias. 

[air_raid]

3 hours ago, Rockbus2 said:

10-16= the shit Wrestlemanias

[herbie747]

5 hours ago, Rockbus2 said:

It will always be-

1-9= the early Wrestlemanias

10-16= the shit Wrestlemanias

17 onwards = the modern Wrestlmanias. 

Nah

1 - 6: golden era

7 - 13: lacklustre / busines declining / new gen / terrible gimmicks era

14 - 19: attitude era / end of an era (final Rock v Austin match to close the book)

20 - Present: don't care

Edited April 23 by herbie747