Hulk Hogan: Real American Trailer

[Chris B]

Again, he not only said 'I'm racist' but the literal next thing he said was 'fucking [n-words]'.

I really don't understand how anyone can be like 'well, we'll never know what was in his heart - he liked some Black people and he clearly liked ill white children. A complicated legacy.'

[Hannibal Scorch]

Dennis Rodman you say. Seems like a completely normal guy to have bat for you.

[AshC]

So any perceived eccentricities devalue his experiences as a black man and a peer of Hogan's? I don't recall *any* of the black talents he worked with, over the course of a 40-odd year career, coming out to say he was a racist. That means all fuck-all because of some gross things secretly recorded in his declining years? I've experienced good people saying *horrible* things in private. This makes them all irredeemable ghouls, who should be lambasted, over and over? Would the same apply to your dad, your grandad, your uncle? I'm not saying he was a saint, but nothing is 100% black or white. It was easier to not post this and I appreciate I'm against the apparent poster consensus, so I'm sure this will go little better, but nevertheless. It's a forum. Nothing personal against anyone, it's a forum of good eggs with good ethics and I'd like to think there's room for nuance in discussion. I gave my opinion and thanks to all who respect that.

[Cousin Jim Bob]

@AshC I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with these posts. Your first one was you saying you don't think he was really a racist. People then pointed out he didn't just say racist things, he literally said "I am a racist".

Now are you trying to say people shouldn't have a go at him for being a racist ? Because you know "good people" who like to say racist stuff to you in private ?

Instead of defending a dead racist, have a think about how your posts come across to people on here who might not be white, or have partners/family members who are not white. Who have actually experienced racism aimed at them.

[tiger_rick]

31 minutes ago, AshC said:

I don't recall *any* of the black talents he worked with, over the course of a 40-odd year career, coming out to say he was a racist. 

I recall a bunch of black talents thought his "apology" for being a racist was a crock of shit.

[AshC]

That's fair enough and a different point. 

[Roy]

27 minutes ago, AshC said:

So any perceived eccentricities devalue his experiences as a black man and a peer of Hogan's? I don't recall *any* of the black talents he worked with, over the course of a 40-odd year career, coming out to say he was a racist. That means all fuck-all because of some gross things secretly recorded in his declining years? I've experienced good people saying *horrible* things in private. This makes them all irredeemable ghouls, who should be lambasted, over and over? Would the same apply to your dad, your grandad, your uncle? I'm not saying he was a saint, but nothing is 100% black or white. It was easier to not post this and I appreciate I'm against the apparent poster consensus, so I'm sure this will go little better, but nevertheless. It's a forum. Nothing personal against anyone, it's a forum of good eggs with good ethics and I'd like to think there's room for nuance in discussion. I gave my opinion and thanks to all who respect that.

I think it's worth considering Bollea's public and private self when trying to assess whether or not he was a racist. Publicly, he's unlikely to say anything racist and if he does, it's typically not going to catch fire. I imagine he would argue that referring to Yokozuna as a 'Jap' was of its time. That his deeply offensive comments about Tony Atlas were uttered through the mouth of a despicable heel promoting a match. His use of the N word (or a carny derivative of it) was a joke on a radio station with limited reach.

Hogan in privately appears to have held racist beliefs. His private comments on his daughter dating a black man, funnily enough with the same profession as Dennis Rodman, and his comments about being reincarnated as a black man, to me, belie his true feelings. No amount of having black friends is going to change that. 

You know what I would do if I were in that situation and wanted to make amends? I would apologise, accept responsibility for my actions and begin atoning for them by taking some time out to be introspective and understand where my hatred comes from and what I can do to move past it. You know what I wouldn't do? Align myself with someone who retweeted a video of the Obamas depicted as apes.  

[AshC]

Yes. I agree with that last paragraph and it befuddles me how that didn't happen.

You could argue 'it's obviously proof he was a massive racist', yet wrestlers have had no issues with working apologies before (I think of Warrior with that kid). 

I think the guy was poorly advised and made some dreadful decisions. 

Edited April 28 by AshC

[Chili]

2 minutes ago, AshC said:

Yes. I agree with that last paragraph and it befuddles me how that didn't happen.

You could argue 'it's obviously proof he was a massive racist', yet wrestlers have had no issues with working apologies before (I think of Warrior with that kid). 

I think the guy was poorly advised and made some dreadful decisions. 

Hogan gave a speech to the locker room and instead of apologizing, the big dumb racist talked about being careful about what you say and where cos... Well you never know. That was his apology that wasn't an apology because evidently he had great difficulty showing arse when he had too (Arsenio for example). Plus, possibly because he felt bad for getting caught and what that did to HIM and not how it affected black people OR wrestlers that maybe he hadn't worked with, a generation or two behind him that might have not known he was a big daft racist.

[Chris B]

1 hour ago, AshC said:

 I've experienced good people saying *horrible* things in private. This makes them all irredeemable ghouls, who should be lambasted, over and over? Would the same apply to your dad, your grandad, your uncle?

It doesn't necessarily make them irredeemable ghouls who should be lambasted over and over, but it does make them people who say horrible things or hold horrible beliefs. And whether or not they're 'good people' may depend on who is being asked to judge. If it's someone they're racist about, then they may not think they're as good people as you think they do.

It's one thing to talk about *why* he was racist, and to wonder about his other qualities. But at the moment, you're kind of arguing that the people calling someone racist are less tolerant than the people calling someone slurs. 

 

Edited April 28 by Chris B

[AshC]

He did say horrible things, I don't debate that. Should those things be brought up every time the guy is? I guess it's a matter of opinion. 

[Chili]

3 minutes ago, AshC said:

He did say horrible things, I don't debate that. Should those things be brought up every time the guy is? I guess it's a matter of opinion. 

No, it's dependent on the context. If discussing him as an in-ring performer, it wouldn't be necessary. When we're discussing a documentary that focused on both aspects of Hogan the character and Terry the real person and businessman? Yes, I think it should because it's massively important to the fall of the image of the man, not the in-ring stuff.

[AshC]

That's fair. 

[garynysmon]

22 minutes ago, AshC said:

He did say horrible things, I don't debate that. Should those things be brought up every time the guy is? I guess it's a matter of opinion. 

Whether anyone wants to bring them up or not is their prerogative. He did it, so its out in the public domain for anyone to analyse or discuss.

A fan from his ‘era’ is likely to have a more complicated view of Hogan than someone who started watching wrestling in 2005, as their outlook is more likely to be clouded by Hogan the character.

But that doesn’t mean that anyone should be shut down or that their perspective of Hogan or his actions is any less valid.

No one has the right to demand that Hogan can only be discussed if what he did is ignored, his legacy isn’t untouchable. He made his bed.

Edited April 28 by garynysmon

[wandshogun09]

2 hours ago, garynysmon said:

He made his bed.

And then shagged his mate’s wife in it.

Lots of good discussion in this thread but I don’t find him complicated at all. He was a big old racist and he also did lots of good things as well. The two don’t have to be mutually exclusive. The very worst people you know aren’t bad 100% of the time. He’s still a racist though. And a self admitted one. There’s no room for confusion on that.