Against the grain wrestling opinions

[Chico Torres]

Agree with all of those, I also thought Diesels other PPV matches with Bret at KOTR 94 and Rumble 95 we’re great too, if not at the level of Survivor Series 95. And the match where he won the IC title from Razor on Superstars.

I don’t think I’ve watched it since it happened because Bret and Shawn having the worst match of all time ruined it for me, but I recall his match against the Undertaker at WM 12 was very good too.

In WCW the Outsiders vs Meng and Barbarian at Starrcade 96 (I think) was great. Also Flair/Piper/Greene vs Nash/Hall/Syxx at Slamboree 97.

[wandshogun09]

26 minutes ago, Chico Torres said:

Flair/Piper/Greene vs Nash/Hall/Syxx at Slamboree 97.

This was way more fun than it looked on paper considering Piper was way past his best and how limited and, well, green Kevin Greene was. Love that match. 

[Dai]

As shown by that Powerslam review, which is comparing it very favourably to the rest of the 1998 stuff, there was definitely a feeling that it was a good to great match, especially in the days of people asking what WCW VHSs would be worth buying.

Even that positive Powerslam review is wrong, as like I said, the match is a nothing match, that has shit run ins, amd seems like they were running out of time and had to rush something as major as Goldbergs streak ending.

[AshC]

Bash at the Beach 97 is one of the most entertaining PPVs of the last 30 years. 

[TAFKA Jonny Vegas]

The Undertaker is the most overrated wrestling act of all time and one of the biggest hypocrites at the same time.

Every version of Kane (other than corporate Kane) was better on every level.

A spooky-bollocks gimmick who performed a number of moves which were entirely un-befitting of a man of his size and added nothing to the match or story, such as "Old School" and his suicide dive to the outside.

Despite this he's spent most of his time criticising the moves and gimmicks of others.

On top of that all signs seem to indicate that he genuinely fancied himself as a legit hard man.

In the words of Tracey Smothers "aren't you a ghost, Mark?".

 

Edited 12 hours ago by TAFKA Jonny Vegas

[Arch Stanton]

Not many of those opinions go against the grain on here! Is there anyone on the forum that confesses to being an Undertaker fan?

[HarmonicGenerator]

16 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Not many of those opinions go against the grain on here! Is there anyone on the forum that confesses to being an Undertaker fan?

Used to be! For the longest time, he was one of my favourites. From childhood through to the Streak ending, at least. Once he retired, though, and the real him started to come into full focus, my opinion did a full 180. Don’t think I’ve gone back and watched a single match he was in since 2020, if not earlier (his last few years in-ring were pretty off-putting by themselves - from the Saudi Shitshow tag match onwards).

[Devon Malcolm]

I never understood why he used to have to pull the logo off the mic when he did a promo. Just hold it like everyone else, you weirdo.

[TAFKA Jonny Vegas]

I would strongly argue that very little he ever did made any sense. Least of all "The American Badass".

If it wasn't for the spooky bollocks stuff he'd have had Brian Adams' career, yet he seems to resent every element of it.

[westlondonmist]

6 hours ago, Dai said:

As shown by that Powerslam review, which is comparing it very favourably to the rest of the 1998 stuff, there was definitely a feeling that it was a good to great match, especially in the days of people asking what WCW VHSs would be worth buying.

Even that positive Powerslam review is wrong, as like I said, the match is a nothing match, that has shit run ins, amd seems like they were running out of time and had to rush something as major as Goldbergs streak ending.

At the time it was probably seen as a fun main event, and probably would have been decent enough without the run ins but never heard great. The Ppv is probably worth watching for Kidman doing double duty and being great.

Goldberg had a belter against Steiner at Fall Brawl 2000, and unsurprisingly an unmotivated Hart carried him at Starrcade 99.

2 hours ago, TAFKA Jonny Vegas said:

The Undertaker is the most overrated wrestling act of all time and one of the biggest hypocrites at the same time.

Every version of Kane (other than corporate Kane) was better on every level.

A spooky-bollocks gimmick who performed a number of moves which were entirely un-befitting of a man of his size and added nothing to the match or story, such as "Old School" and his suicide dive to the outside.

Despite this he's spent most of his time criticising the moves and gimmicks of others.

On top of that all signs seem to indicate that he genuinely fancied himself as a legit hard man.

In the words of Tracey Smothers "aren't you a ghost, Mark?".

 

I think the early 90s dead man stuff is great (but of it's time) but that could have been anyone really.

I didn't like the American badass stuff and honestly felt his matches against Flair and Triple H were boring. Thought the streak was a bit silly too, just made it obvious he was going to win.

Edited 10 hours ago by westlondonmist

[TAFKA Jonny Vegas]

I agree that the early 90's Undertaker stuff was the best of his work. It's remarkable to me though that he had such success and longevity.

Papa Shango was a much better gimmick than The Undertaker.

Much cooler and more intimidating look, much better gimmick, much scarier for kids, I wouldn't even say Mean Mark was any better in the ring than Charles Wright was.

[Supremo]

I blame The Undertaker for all the dreadful spooky gimmicks that we’ve had to endure in the years since he retired. That alone counteracts even the best matches he had.

[HandsomeButchIII]

Jack Victory was a solid worker. Meat and Potatoes. Can't go wrong, it's what you need.