AEW TV 2025 Discussion

[d-d-d-dAz]

2 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

He's not rubbish and never was. You'd hear that about Edge at times. He's just never really been great. I love that list of names you mention. When they signed Punk, I was wet at the prospect of him facing those guys who were there then. Same with Bryan. But Copeland? Nah. There's never been a dream match in history that I'd attach his name to. It's like when the WWE got to re-write history, as the winners - did you know they won? - and pretended that there was ever a WCW v WWF dream match that involved Triple H. Just didn't happen - and Trips was a talented fella.

Since we're stuck with him, I'm happy enough with him and FTR as a happy go lucky trio. That's a good suggestion. Keep him away from trying to be Bryan.

See, I broadly agree with you. Certainly your first point about Edge being good, not necessarily great. 

I also don't really place him in my mental dream matches.

That said, they can't just drop him in a 'happy go lucky' trio. With Bryan gone, he's unquestionably their biggest star, has millions of followers and is on some Disney+ show or something which is huge with family audiences.

They need to put him in with the big boys, it'd be promotional malpractice not to. And he's not bad, they just need to - to Supremo's point - find a way of having him in main event level feuds without him becoming GRITTY.

[Lorne Malvo]

I thought that for the start of a new era and a show that will presumably have more eyeballs on it, it was a weirdly low-key Dynamite. Enjoyable enough though.

Loved the new intro song.

I'm not sure if they're starting to subtly tell a story of Orange Cassidy being knackered through a combination of Death Rider beatings and being AEW's workhorse, or if he is genuinely tired. But there were parts of that Hangman match where he just looked done in. Hangman taking 3 Orange Punches and coming right back makes me think maybe it's a storyline but hard to tell. He's my favourite wrestler of the last few years but I wouldn't mind him having a few months off just to freshen the act up.

The Hurt Syndicate having a tag run is a million times more preferable than a Lashley singles run. They need to pull the trigger on the Acclaimed split around 3 months ago.

Julia Hart looked great. Until the match started. Not the best start but hopefully she gets back to where she was as the ring rust goes. Did they botch the mist? I couldn't see anything on Hayter's face at all.

I like all 3 guys but I couldn't get into the three-way until the last few moments. Maybe because it was face vs face vs face. But it did pick up in the closing stretch and the Ricochet angle was great.

Very much looking forwards to Jeff Jarrett trying to capture the world title. Whether he wins it or fails in his mission, he's going to be incredible to watch.

I'm already much more interested in MJF again now he's away from nerds.

Really liked the main event. I'm glad Supremo mentioned how good Cope's AEW run has been - for me, as someone who was never that arsed about Edge, his AEW run has been the best run of his career so far. I actually think a little Cope vs Mox program would be really fun, provided they don't stretch it out too long.

The Cope name is shite but we all got used to Dolph Ziggler, Walter and The Rock so it'll be fine.

Casino Gauntlet Match next week, we're back baby!

[Chris B]

I was a little disappointed in Hangman/Cassidy - felt a half-step off, and like there just wasn't necessarily chemistry there. But then, if it's the first part of something, it could build up really well. But for a bit of a dream match, I forgot it had happened as soon as it was over.

Other than that, pretty strong show with a fun crowd. The Ricochet thing was great. With the reactions on here, I thought there'd been some massive promo for the 'Cope' thing rather than it just being noted that he's shortened his name by commentary. People have been calling him Cope at times anyway, so I'm fine with it. Him calling Big Bil's face stupid, and Bill doing the whole 'does... does he not see it?' thing made me genuinely laugh.

I really liked how many people declared interest in the world title on this show. It should be like that more often - everyone jostling for position. It also felt like more people were big deals, which was impressive considering there's a bunch of people missing because of Christmas and the Japan show at the weekend. The Jarrett thing, in particular, was lovely. Don't want him to win, but do want him to get a PPV title shot. I'd be down with that.

[RedTwoster]

4 minutes ago, Chris B said:

The Jarrett thing, in particular, was lovely. Don't want him to win, but do want him to get a PPV title shot. I'd be down with that.

Yeah, I totally agree. I want to want him to win, then to have my heart broken by whoever the World Champion is at the time. Jarrett is brilliant on the mic in his babyface veteran character - thanks largely to the fact he’s able to be himself, and he seems to be a decent person. 

Above anything else, I’d like to see him win the Owen on his way out; whether that’s for the additional prize of a World title shot, or after his World title match ends in disappointment. 

[tiger_rick]

55 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

With Bryan gone, he's unquestionably their biggest star

He's their biggest name. But it's a name that means something to an audience that they don't have who are satisfied by a product elsewhere. I'm not sure that's a star for AEW. Neither he nor Bryan are the sort of name that's dragging people over to watch this product - hence my initial comment about his drawing. 

I'm being flippant because he's clearly not going anywhere. Tony is going to have a boner for him and he's going to be in a top spot. It's just not for me and is a spot and time and effort that would be better served on someone who is the future if the company. I get that it's a dilemma but it's yet another major reason for the dip in AEW's pulling power. The choices of who they acquire and who they push were phenomenal up to a point and then they've made too many poor decisions since. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

11 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

He's their biggest name. But it's a name that means something to an audience that they don't have who are satisfied by a product elsewhere. I'm not sure that's a star for AEW. Neither he nor Bryan are the sort of name that's dragging people over to watch this product - hence my initial comment about his drawing. 

I'm being flippant because he's clearly not going anywhere. Tony is going to have a boner for him and he's going to be in a top spot. It's just not for me and is a spot and time and effort that would be better served on someone who is the future if the company. I get that it's a dilemma but it's yet another major reason for the dip in AEW's pulling power. The choices of who they acquire and who they push were phenomenal up to a point and then they've made too many poor decisions since. 

I think AEW has to at least make some moves to try and grow their audience, and cater for that audience who - like you say - are probably being catered for elsewhere currently.

There's not a TV commissioner in the world who wants to hear 'we know our audience, they're our glass ceiling and we're just going to ride them until the wheels come off'.

I think what AEW has been excellent at, in the main, is using the big name talent in a way that shines a light on their young or homegrown talent. Wheeler Yuta as part of the Bombay Bicycle Club or whatever they're called now; Punk v MJF; Sting/Allin.*

And I think that's where they need to get with Cope (fuck it, I'll go with it) - they need to capitalise on his star, use him as much as they can to drag in new people (whether that works or not is a different question) but do so in such a way that shines a light on the people that will be there when he's not.

It's why Cope/Mox and Cope/Christian don't tickle me in the way that Cope/MJF or Cope/Swerve or Cope/Takeshita or Cope/Ospreay or whatever do.

 

*The Dementor Chris Jericho is the ex exception that proves the rule.

Edited January 3, 2025 by d-d-d-dAz

[tiger_rick]

1 minute ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I think AEW has to at least make some moves to try and grow their audience, and cater for that audience who - like you say - are probably being catered for elsewhere currently.

There's not a TV commissioner in the world who wants to hear 'we know our audience, they're our glass ceiling and we're just going to ride them until the wheels come off'.

You're right and I'm not suggesting they shouldn't grow the audience. But when you make a signing like Punk, Bryan or Copeland, you expect to see a return almost immediately. If people are interested, there'd be a big uptick in interest from fans and media, ticket sales and TV numbers. That was clearly there for Punk, was less so for Bryan and isn't something I've seen at all for Copeland. Bryan is such an exceptional wrestler that he brings the other element of just wanting to see him work the other guys that I don't personally get from Edge.

The guy is 51, he's not a long-term project. If there aren't signs of interest in him in over a year, I don't see that changing. His work is good, especially for a guy his age - he's not Jericho - and he'll not let them down but it's just not someone I think is that valuable in the big picture. 

Others may disagree but, I generally really enjoy their product week to week. They consistently produce an entertaining wrestling show. The key to growing the audience is producing characters and talent who people will see and want to watch consistently, to support, to see in person. The effort in producing that should be clearly focused on people like Will Ospreay,  Swerve, Powerhouse Hobbs, Willow, Julia and Takeshita. I know you can do that while still having your Copeland's and Cole's about but I don't trust TK to do it. I think he's like everyone else, he's in love with people he has a nostalgia for and he's going to put them in positions they are long past.

3 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

And I think that's where they need to get with Cope (fuck it, I'll go with it)

I've no issue with it in this context, fwiw. It's fine as a nickname that's just short for Copeland. It's when you imagine them announcing him as "THE RATED R-SUUUUUUUUPERSTAR (Imagine Chimel is back) - COPE" that it becomes laughable.

[BomberPat]

there is definitely value in Adam Copeland, and I'm not adverse to him getting involved in a World Title programme, I just don't think now is the time to do it, when the story to this point has been about how it's the young stars of AEW who need to stand up to Moxley and the Death Riders - it's not a great look to have Moxley back down from a 51 year old returning from injury, having just beaten three of AEW's younger top stars (okay, so Orange Cassidy is older than Mox, but in TV terms I'd argue he's a "younger" character). 

It would be revisiting an old feud, and tying two people together who don't need to be joined at the hip, but I'd have limited Copeland's involvement at this point to either Rated FTR winning the Trios Titles (rather than facing a Death Riders trio who aren't the champions), or him preventing Christian Cage from cashing in for his title shot, and pivot back to an Edge/Christian programme running alongside whatever else Mox is doing. 

While he's a big name to a certain generation, I just don't think there's much value in presenting Copeland as a top star that's still able to match skills with World Champions. I'm also not convinced that, whatever name value he might bring to the table, Copeland has ever been a draw.

[Chris B]

I think Cope is there for the TV execs more than as a draw. You can make a really good case for him as a big star (multiple time world champion, long feuds with the bigger names at the time, and around for the attitude era). And he can go. I think he's an overall positive - and I think he's in for a short main event run right now, and then in as a good hand and building people up.

If he's constantly in the main event for the next while, it's a mis-fire. But he's a guy I'm always happy to see, to be honest.

[FUM]

Edge was always a far better heel than a face. Nobody ever liked him as a face and he was forced to turn in WWE on multiple occasions. I have absolutely zero interest in Copeland as a face because of the GRIT stuff mentioned above. I reckon opinions would quickly turn and he’d be of value if he turned and actually brought back his Rated R Superstar character (without the live sex shows).

Checked out the show and I enjoyed it so I’ll likely stick around for a bit. As not a big AEW fan I have to ask if Collision is required these days to keep in touch with storylines? I know it became a bit of a B show after Punk was gone but not checked it out much since without turning it back off a quarter of the way in.

[Chris B]

4 minutes ago, FUM said:

As not a big AEW fan I have to ask if Collision is required these days to keep in touch with storylines? I know it became a bit of a B show after Punk was gone but not checked it out much since without turning it back off a quarter of the way in.

It varies. Most of the time, it's not essential for the main storylines. But, if they've got a cluster of PPVs they're trying to build to, there'll sometimes be some more major stuff happen on the show, as they burn through time.

[DavidB6937]

It's that weird thing when you get an ex-WWE guy on the mic defending AEW and saying it's the best place ever etc when they've not really been around. It just feels so disingenuous. 

Cope's there to have fun. I get that. He's there to test himself a little bit, have some freedom and do some different stuff before he retires because he's had a massively lucky return to the ring. Good on him.

I've got time for Cope. He's enjoyable and there's more than enough intriguing and unique matches out there with a roster that big that he can have watchable battles with. 

He's not the one you're building the company or the future round though. Not now and perhaps not ever because he's never really been that guy. He was always far more a Jericho level guy than anything else - there to trouble the main event scene as and when but never the top top guy.

He's stronger as a heel as long as he doesn't go the Judgement Day direction.

[d-d-d-dAz]

3 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

 

He's not the one you're building the company or the future round though. Not now and perhaps not ever because he's never really been that guy. He was always far more a Jericho level guy than anything else - there to trouble the main event scene as and when but never the top top guy.

I agree with everything else you've said, but he was leagues above Jericho in terms of positioning.

That might be just because Vince loved him or whatever (I actually think he carried himself and had the aura of a bigger star than Jericho, though Jericho was the better wrestler mostly), but Edge was an 11 time World Champion, and probably John Cena's most consequential opponent.

He didn't flit around the main event scene like Jericho, he was a fixture of it.

He's a recognisable, big name and AEW should get whatever value is left in that and transfer it to their younger guys before finishing with a Tag Team run with Christian. Anything else would be madness.

I'm absolutely Fascinated by a potential Cope/Ospreay match. I reckon it would be great.

[DavidB6937]

8 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

I agree with everything else you've said, but he was leagues above Jericho in terms of positioning.

That might be just because Vince loved him or whatever (I actually think he carried himself and had the aura of a bigger star than Jericho, though Jericho was the better wrestler mostly), but Edge was an 11 time World Champion, and probably John Cena's most consequential opponent.

He didn't flit around the main event scene like Jericho, he was a fixture of it.

He's a recognisable, big name and AEW should get whatever value is left in that and transfer it to their younger guys before finishing with a Tag Team run with Christian. Anything else would be madness.

I'm absolutely Fascinated by a potential Cope/Ospreay match. I reckon it would be great.

Sorry, that's more how I've always seen him. In terms of how I view him in history and his position, he's there for me rather than ever managing to secure a real top top level. He feels like one of those guys that only really got to hold the belt as many times as he did because there were two of them etc etc. Absolutely they put more into him than Jericho but the amount of times he held world titles was silly and most of them completely forgettable to me.

It's interesting to see how guys like that are viewed by different people. Perhaps those who grew up in that era see him as a bigger deal than those who were older and saw others before him. I guess that's natural though. Everyone always has their champions.

[d-d-d-dAz]

1 minute ago, DavidB6937 said:

Sorry, that's more how I've always seen him. In terms of how I view him in history and his position, he's there for me rather than ever managing to secure a real top top level. He feels like one of those guys that only really got to hold the belt as many times as he did because there were two of them etc etc. Absolutely they put more into him than Jericho but the amount of times he held world titles was silly and most of them completely forgettable to me.

It's interesting to see how guys like that are viewed by different people. Perhaps those who grew up in that era see him as a bigger deal than those who were older and saw others before him. I guess that's natural though. Everyone always has their champions.

But that's just you layering your own personal context over the top, which is fine.

But that's not the same as saying 'he was always more a Jericho level guy than anything else'. To you personally it might be correct to say you never bought him as more than a Jericho, but in terms of the actual facts of his presentation and his positioning it's wrong. Edge was someone, for whatever reason, they positioned over an extended period of time as a serious main eventer in a way they never committed to with Jericho.

I'm unfortunately old enough for them both to be new-wave main eventers as far as I'm concerned, but just in terms of the objective elements of the conversation Edge was always positioned as a bigger star than Jericho. Especially after he came back from his first big injury and had MUSCLES. 

It was an interesting time though as Jericho/Christian got lumped in together by WWE more than Edge/Jericho, and I'd say actually what you ended up with was 3 guys competing for fairly similar territory with Edge coming out as the priority, Jericho as the level below and Christian behind both.

Which is a shame, as everyone knows the talent has always been with Christian really.