Pro Wrestling Contract Season

[BomberPat]

WWE have always sold people on opportunity and "childhood dream" stuff - I personally know of people who turned down a bigger money offer from AEW to sign with WWE. They get you by playing on the, "but didn't you always dream of competing at Madison Square Garden/Wrestlemania?" angle, or by selling you on how much money you could make.

AEW might give you a bigger basic take-home pay, but if you want to gamble on making more in royalties and perks, then WWE's the company that's going to get your action figure in every toy shop, to get you in a best-selling computer game, and potentially open doors to other media and marketing opportunities. It's a pretty powerful combination. It used to be that you made big money from DVD/video and PPV royalties too, but the Network, and subsequently Peacock and Netflix, did away with that. 

I also know people who are currently working for WWE, who when they signed there, pretty openly admitted that they were seeing it as a retirement package, and that they were happy to just ride it out and make the money for as long as it was coming in, and with the knowledge that once they left they could up their asking price because promoters could put "as soon on WWE" to the poster. I don't think AEW carries that weight as much yet, because it doesn't crossover as much with the family/casual market where that sort of advertising can be more of a dealbreaker.

 

Something AEW really used to be able to sell to people was creative freedom, and less pressures than what existed under Vince McMahon in WWE. We've seen how that's changed in the last couple of years, and how much of that is perception and how much of reality is almost irrelevant - there are people who see the grass as being greener on the other side, and the new regime in WWE as being more amenable to them, and often it's the same people who were desperate to get out of WWE to prove themselves elsewhere last time around. 

[LaGoosh]

17 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

This is something I’m curious about as far as what it means for big name talent coming to the end of their contract. AEW can presumably outspend WWE whenever they want to, so when the contract of someone like MJF comes close to an end, is he going to be less likely to consider that WWE run in order to keep his earnings at what they are? 

An interesting idea. I think WWE probably would roll out the cash truck for any top AEW name they think will make a difference for them but I suppose the difference between the two is that AEW might offer more of a guaranteed level but WWE offer the potential to make more cash on top of the baseline guarantee. They have a bigger and wider fanbase so you have the potential to make serious amounts of cash on merch and the more exposure means you will be more likely to get outside work and seeing as most wrestlers seem to dream of transitioning to acting this alone might tempt someone into making the jump. I would doubt anyone outside the very top AEW guys is making WWE level money anyway. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

I don't mean this as a knock, it's a genuine question. Who out of the AEW headliners would be worth paying for by WWE at the minute, and I mean worth it to WWE financially other than just taking them from AEW? They have some younger talent worth investing in for the future like Hook but I couldn't say that any current AEW headliner might move the needle, perhaps barring Ospreay and WWE have already missed that boat. 

[DavidB6937]

20 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

I don't mean this as a knock, it's a genuine question. Who out of the AEW headliners would be worth paying for by WWE at the minute, and I mean worth it to WWE financially other than just taking them from AEW? They have some younger talent worth investing in for the future like Hook but I couldn't say that any current AEW headliner might move the needle, perhaps barring Ospreay and WWE have already missed that boat. 

Depends what the metric is these days. Is there anyone anywhere that significantly moves the needle? I'd argue the majority of top talent in AEW would probably be worth investing in, and not just in a 'take them away from AEW!' type deal. If they shift merch, create a buzz, put on good matches etc then you'd think they were worth investing in as part of the whole package of WWE. You could argue that WWE sells itself as a brand most of the time rather than putting the weight of success on many individuals.

[LaGoosh]

32 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

there are people who see the grass as being greener on the other side, and the new regime in WWE as being more amenable to them, and often it's the same people who were desperate to get out of WWE to prove themselves elsewhere last time around. 

I think it's also probably changed perceptions as well that when AEW hired a bunch of ex-WWE guys who were seen as underutilised or buried and then turned out they were actually duds. You're no longer guaranteed a top spot and a big push in AEW just because you're coming in from WWE - you'll might not get a job offer and if you do you're going to have to put a lot of work in and have the right attitude to succeed there. For some wrestlers they might not want to do that. It's probably easier to coast in WWE with guaranteed decent money and a light workload.

[BomberPat]

I think we are long past the point where it would happen, but Kenny Omega is the guy I think WWE would break the bank to go after. The optics for AEW would be pretty dire, in terms of poaching away another of their founders, and one without the history with them that Cody Rhodes had, while I think there likely was a point in time where Kenny would have weighed up his options and could conceivably have gone to work there - I think what WWE can hold over a lot of people is this sense of "What If?", that even if you never really wanted to work there, part of you is going to be left wondering if you could have made it to the top there. I think post-illness and everything else there's no chance of it happening now.

That point about whether people want to work WWE or not is another interesting one; we're really seeing the first generation of wrestlers in a long time who had something other than WWE to get them into wrestling or to aspire towards. Ospreay was never really a WWE guy - his favourite wrestlers were all in TNA or Japan. Eddie Kingston was never really a WWF fan, he was an ECW guy and then an AJPW guy, his aspirations were always to work Japan. I've spoken with wrestlers from Philadelphia who were teenagers at a time when there was a different indie promotion on local TV every night of the week, so that's what wrestling was to them, WWE was never the goal. I think it's extremely healthy for wrestling just to have another substantial place for wrestlers to earn a living.

AEW headliners to WWE is an interesting one. I think they would roll out the red carpet for MJF, but I'm not so sure they would do for Swerve or Hangman, they would probably slot them in somewhere just below the main event. Ospreay I could see being treated like AJ Styles at first, taking some time for them to think that he actually could be a viable main eventer for them.

I don't see anyone else in AEW getting the Cody treatment when brought into WWE; Cody was a special case, and the message has been sent there. But everyone else they've brought in might have got some fanfare and WWE fans talking about how "Tony dropped the ball" with them, but I don't see how Andrade, Penta, Ricky Starks, Shawn Spears, Ethan Page, Pillman Jr. or Jade Cargill are in a meaningfully better position for having jumped ship than they were in AEW - and in some cases, they've probably found their level and that's fine, not everyone is cut out to be a main eventer in either promotion. But I think WWE want anyone from AEW to look to Cody and see the opportunities they could get when the reality is much more around the Andrade level of "remember this guy?" in the Rumble and then never getting booked in a PPV singles match again.

 

I think for WWE it's about damaging the perception of AEW - to fans and to wrestlers who might consider working there - at least as much as it's about getting their hands on a new top star. If they can make it look like more and more people in AEW would rather work for WWE, it almost doesn't matter at this point in time how well they use those wrestlers once they get them, it just creates an impression that AEW are the second-choice. And the direction of travel lately hasn't helped that - the people AEW have most recently picked up from WWE are the veterans aging out, rather than the young stars not getting a fair shake, while WWE are getting wrestlers that have managed to convince people rightly or wrongly that they weren't getting the opportunities they deserved in AEW.

[RedTwoster]

28 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

I don't mean this as a knock, it's a genuine question. Who out of the AEW headliners would be worth paying for by WWE at the minute, and I mean worth it to WWE financially other than just taking them from AEW? They have some younger talent worth investing in for the future like Hook but I couldn't say that any current AEW headliner might move the needle, perhaps barring Ospreay and WWE have already missed that boat. 

WWE has relied on the same wrestlers at the top for quite some time, so in terms on maintaining interest, I think it would be to their benefit to land a recognisable name from AEW - you only need to look at the positive impact made by Cody Rhodes to see how that can go. 

You land MJF, and you have a fresh face who much of the audience will be aware of - you get a brand new top heel, and potential rematches with Punk and Cody alongside a host of new opponents. Plus, he’s young so you might get years out of him at a high level. 

I don’t think he’ll ever go to WWE, but if they were to land Hangman Page, they have landed the next Cody - he’d be a huge star for them. 

Moxley would allow for a lucrative Shield reunion, and there probably is money in one last Jericho run in WWE - though I suspect Tony Khan would be perfectly happy with letting WWE outbid them in his case.

On the women’s side, WWE has a heck of a lot of talent in NXT, so perhaps they’d be less likely to spend big. That said, Toni Storm, Mariah May, Harley Cameron and Willow Nightingale would all be huge stars for them.

[tiger_rick]

32 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

I don't mean this as a knock, it's a genuine question. Who out of the AEW headliners would be worth paying for by WWE at the minute, and I mean worth it to WWE financially other than just taking them from AEW? They have some younger talent worth investing in for the future like Hook but I couldn't say that any current AEW headliner might move the needle, perhaps barring Ospreay and WWE have already missed that boat. 

I agree with David, I'd say pretty much all of them. Roman, Punk and Cody are genuine stars in the promotion but I think the rest is a collaborative effort. Obviously there are levels within that collaboration but there are a lot of pieces they just move up and down, turn and reheat and generally, the rest of the names don't particularly matter ther than to create some level of freshness. All of the names at the top of AEW would bring a breath of fresh air and would come in as younger, fresher guys with something of a reputation and, crucially, the air of guys who've shunned AEW for the big company which is a hot ticket right now amongst a lot of the sycophants who support WWE.

I think only Copeland and Moxley don't have the freshness but they would both give you the returning prodigal son angle.

Swerve and Hangman, I think could be genuine needle movers. Swerve is completely different to anyone who has ever been on top in WWE. He's the coolest guy in the industry by a million miles and has real connections and links to current pop-culture. Hangman is just truly brilliant. He looks incredible his work is great, he can do everything and he has a realness that shines through.

I don't want anyone bar Copeland to actually fuck off to WWE but I do love that we have this discussion.

[tiger_rick]

2 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

On the women’s side, WWE has a heck of a lot of talent in NXT, so perhaps they’d be less likely to spend big. That said, Toni Storm, Mariah May, Harley Cameron and Willow Nightingale would all be huge stars for them.

Great point that I overlooked. Mainly because I still don't think that for all their bluster, WWE actually present any of the women as stars. Rhea Ripley felt close for a bit but she sure as fuck doesn't now.

[BomberPat]

8 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I think it's also probably changed perceptions as well that when AEW hired a bunch of ex-WWE guys who were seen as underutilised or buried and then turned out they were actually duds. You're no longer guaranteed a top spot and a big push in AEW just because you're coming in from WWE - you'll might not get a job offer and if you do you're going to have to put a lot of work in and have the right attitude to succeed there. For some wrestlers they might not want to do that. It's probably easier to coast in WWE with guaranteed decent money and a light workload.

I think what's interesting is the people who turned out to be duds and the people who turned out not to be. I figured Ricochet would have a pretty low ceiling in AEW, because he was going to be working with Ospreay, and all that would do would highlight how much Ospreay has grown as a performer since their last match while Ricochet stayed where he was, and that he wouldn't stand out as a high-flyer as he's slowing down while so much of the AEW roster can do what he does better than he can any more, and because I assumed he had nothing else to offer. Instead, he's reinvented himself as a genuinely hateable smarmy heel and become a really valuable member of the roster.

Toni Storm came in doing the same stuff she was doing in WWE, which was more or less the same thing she'd done everywhere else. But she's been allowed to reinvent herself into something absolutely brilliant, and with a little diversion into doing the throwback gimmick as well. I think what AEW has proven now when it comes to WWE talent is that it's not afraid to course correct; Mercedes Moné really wasn't working out as a star babyface, but very quickly got turned heel to much better success. On a smaller scale, they did the same with Saraya - she came in doing the Junior Fatu TNA promo where it was clear she'd never watched the show, they tried her out as a babyface, and soon realised they'd fucked it and shuffled things around to get her where she needed to be. Ruby Soho wasn't really doing anything different from Ruby Riott, but then they stumbled on a genuinely brilliant romance angle with her fella.

It makes it pretty clear to me that when things aren't working out for a "WWE act" in AEW, it's likely not AEW creative's fault, because there's been enough examples of people being given the opportunity to be the shiny new toy, and when it doesn't work out either having the freedom to change things up, or just finding their level as part of a tag or trios act, or lower down the card, while they figure things out. The ex-WWE guys that aren't working out are the ones who are too stubborn to follow creative that isn't the Bob Holly "I beat everyone and then I win the belt" story, who aren't prepared to take a gamble on themselves, or who just think too highly of where their spot on the card should be, and will probably be making all the same complaints back in WWE.

 

What I find interesting is that, unless I'm forgetting someone, there's not really been any movement from AEW's women's division back to WWE. There was Jade Cargill, and Stephanie Vaquer getting signed after showing up in AEW, but for the most part we've seen WWE names come into AEW and nothing much the other way around. And for all the faults of AEW's women's booking over the years, they afford them so much more freedom in terms of the kind of matches and things they're allowed to do, I can see why AEW could be a much more appealing destination for a female wrestler. 

[RedTwoster]

6 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

I think what's interesting is the people who turned out to be duds and the people who turned out not to be. I figured Ricochet would have a pretty low ceiling in AEW, because he was going to be working with Ospreay, and all that would do would highlight how much Ospreay has grown as a performer since their last match while Ricochet stayed where he was, and that he wouldn't stand out as a high-flyer as he's slowing down while so much of the AEW roster can do what he does better than he can any more, and because I assumed he had nothing else to offer. Instead, he's reinvented himself as a genuinely hateable smarmy heel and become a really valuable member of the roster.

Yeah, I thought Ricochet would disappear into the background much as Andrade, Miro and Black did, but you could make a case for him being their best signing on the men’s side for a long time. I could easily see him winning a World title in AEW, and being an absolute blast as a heel champion. 

Brodie Lee is another one - he underwent a complete overhaul, going from a cult member to a smartly dressed, cult leader who abused his vulnerable stablemates for his own gain. His mic skills always felt like a weakness in WWE, but he proved that he was a fantastic promo in AEW. 

I’d also throw Shaun Spears’ name out there. He tossed aside the 10 gimmick to become an entertaining midcard heel. He was never going to trouble the main events, but he had a good run.

[BomberPat]

I actually think that quietly one of the best WWE to AEW signings in terms of return on investment was 2.0. 

You'd be forgiven for forgetting that "Ever-Rise" were ever a thing in NXT. But coming in to AEW they were thrown immediately into the mix with top stars, found a niche for themselves, did the Jericho Appreciation Society stuff, got the partnership with Daniel Garcia, Daddy Magic as Garcia's hype-man, as a commentator, and (not nearly often enough) as AEW's Don West shilling merchandise, while Cool Hand Ang got the romance storyline with Ruby Soho. I suspect part of the reason they were heavily featured right out of the gate is because they're good friends with Kevin Owens and Tony Khan wanted to make AEW look more appealing to Owens when his WWE deal was up, and particularly with Magic having just had a kid when NXT released them, being good to Kevin's friends seemed like a good way to do that. But they have more than earned their keep since.

 

Something I always find revealing is the reputation that AEW picked up in some quarters for just hiring every WWE cast-off going. Because they really haven't done that at all when you look at the sheer numbers of WWE releases since 2019.

They never picked up your Eric Youngs, Curt Hawkinses or EC3s of the world, nor Braun Strowman or Karrion Kross, I don't think they really went near anyone who got cut from NXT UK, never brought in Goldberg despite a fair few rumours that him and Tony Khan were bezzy mates, they never signed Dolph Ziggler or Mustafa Ali, nor Baron Corbin, or the AOP, or any number of people from NXT I couldn't pick out of a line-up. Just based on the numbers alone, I think they've actually been reasonably reserved about signing people straight out of WWE!

And I think they're in a position now where very few people still feel like they have a "WWE stink" on them, or that they're either still trying to get a WWE act over, or that they're only where they're at because of WWE. The Undisputed Kingdom are maybe the only act that really feel like they're a WWE product on an AEW show now, and that's largely because since adding Kyle O'Reilly back in and seemingly sacking off Taven & Bennett, they're back to basically the same line-up as they were in NXT seemingly forever - but even then, that's an extension of a ROH act rather than a WWE one first and foremost.

[Hannibal Scorch]

Here’s the thing, who is a Megastar in wrestling today? For me Cena was the last one. Logan Paul you could possibly argue, but he’s so part time, that I wouldn’t. Roman is their biggest star and the one WWE have made THE guy, but he’s not a megastar. Show a picture of Roman Reigns to the average person and very few would know his name. There’s no big movies, hardly any appearances outside of the odd talk show spot, TV guest star roles? Nope. The days of WWE being the place you become a Megastar are not there anymore. He’s probably making more money than Hogan and Austin did but there’s no mainstream appeal like they had. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

There is a lot of love in this thread for Hangman Page, and rightly so. I took some time to warm to him but he has been consistently excellent for a good few years now so fair play.

I put forward this proposition though. He would be nothing in WWE. The last person with any hint of a cowboy gimmick in WWE was JBL and he only really peaked as Million Dollar Layfield, such as the peak was. Now Hangman is a million times better than JBL but that cowboy stink is difficult to shake off and before you know it you are Braden Walker. I don't remember the last successful top card run with a cowboy gimmick in WWE. That's not to say Hangman couldn't do something else as a gimmick, but it would diminish him either way. 

[Lorne Malvo]

1 minute ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

There is a lot of love in this thread for Hangman Page, and rightly so. I took some time to warm to him but he has been consistently excellent for a good few years now so fair play.

 

I'll admit, I was the same. Even during his brilliant feud with Omega, he was never a top 5 guy for me. It was the Swerve feud that opened my eyes and made me realise how incredible the bloke is.