TimmyB Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 6 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I always assumed they got a sweet deal based on them doing Sunday afternoon shows when it was highly unlikely to be in use by anyone else and them clearing out before the evening gig. In regards to Brit wrestlers - what's the going rate for a booking these days in general? I assume none of them are making anything close to a living off it? I understand a lot of them do it full-time and that wages have shot up during recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 3 Paid Members Share Posted May 3 32 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I always assumed they got a sweet deal based on them doing Sunday afternoon shows when it was highly unlikely to be in use by anyone else and them clearing out before the evening gig. In regards to Brit wrestlers - what's the going rate for a booking these days in general? I assume none of them are making anything close to a living off it? Possibly, but "unlikely to be in use by anyone else" isn't really a selling point for venue managers any more - if the venue is open for wrestling in the afternoon, then they're covering costs on staff, cleaning, electricity, sundries, and so on, all these overheads that aren't a concern if they're not open. When the venue's usually used for gigs, getting a wrestling ring in there cuts capacity down considerably, and then on top of that wrestling audiences aren't big spenders at the bar - I see fans try and dispute this a lot, but it's true; if for no other reason than most people won't get up to go to the bar during a match, so the window to make money is pre-show, post-show and interval, whereas at gigs you'll have a fairly steady turnover. It sucks, and it's a symptom of a wider problem, but for a lot of places it can be more cost-effective to let the building stay empty and unused than to host a wrestling show. The latter point on being able to clear out before an evening gig is a winner, though - I know companies that went from mid-week dates to Fridays and Saturdays by being able to prove they could run to time and have everything cleared out in time for the next act, and so there might be an arrangement that they've come to there. We actually have more data than we've ever had before on how much wrestlers are making, as Equity did a pay survey last year:  Obviously this skews toward those who responded, and my gut feeling is that the 9% figure of people making a full-time living should be a little higher. I know a few people who do it full-time at the moment; some manage it because they're in high demand, most because they either have regular income through running a training school on top of their wrestling bookings, or that they make a killing on merch sales. It also seems like that there's a lot more British talent getting bookings all over mainland Europe in places that weren't that big on imports in the past, so for some wrestlers it's those international dates that have allowed them to go full-time, almost back to how things worked in the World of Sport days, where very few people were actually making money wrestling in this country, but it gave them the experience and the connections to do a few big money foreign tours a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Possibly, but "unlikely to be in use by anyone else" isn't really a selling point for venue managers any more - if the venue is open for wrestling in the afternoon, then they're covering costs on staff, cleaning, electricity, sundries, and so on, all these overheads that aren't a concern if they're not open. When the venue's usually used for gigs, getting a wrestling ring in there cuts capacity down considerably, and then on top of that wrestling audiences aren't big spenders at the bar - I see fans try and dispute this a lot, but it's true; if for no other reason than most people won't get up to go to the bar during a match, so the window to make money is pre-show, post-show and interval, whereas at gigs you'll have a fairly steady turnover. It sucks, and it's a symptom of a wider problem, but for a lot of places it can be more cost-effective to let the building stay empty and unused than to host a wrestling show. The latter point on being able to clear out before an evening gig is a winner, though - I know companies that went from mid-week dates to Fridays and Saturdays by being able to prove they could run to time and have everything cleared out in time for the next act, and so there might be an arrangement that they've come to there. We actually have more data than we've ever had before on how much wrestlers are making, as Equity did a pay survey last year:  Obviously this skews toward those who responded, and my gut feeling is that the 9% figure of people making a full-time living should be a little higher. I know a few people who do it full-time at the moment; some manage it because they're in high demand, most because they either have regular income through running a training school on top of their wrestling bookings, or that they make a killing on merch sales. It also seems like that there's a lot more British talent getting bookings all over mainland Europe in places that weren't that big on imports in the past, so for some wrestlers it's those international dates that have allowed them to go full-time, almost back to how things worked in the World of Sport days, where very few people were actually making money wrestling in this country, but it gave them the experience and the connections to do a few big money foreign tours a year. Any data on how many ham sandwiches have been used as payment? In seriousness though one thing the British scene may be facing is that as fees for decent wrestlers have increased as the scene grew, their fees (and fees of all non wrestling talent / backstage people) have not gone down as the scene took a down turn. Not saying it should, but Im sure you can see a situation where outgoings remaining steady whilst incomings drop would be a major issue. Edited May 3 by andrew "the ref" coyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted May 3 Paid Members Share Posted May 3 15 minutes ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Not saying it should, but Im sure you can see a situation where outgoings remaining steady whilst incomings drop would be a major issue. that comes down to smart booking again, though - it doesn't need to be a seven match card, a tag team match can make way for a singles, and so on. Talent fees are the least of your worries when it comes to overheads, and the easiest place to make savings, even without being completely mercenary about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 21 hours ago, Daddymagic said: In further companies that sold out to WWE news, ICW had to move their show last week from the Garage which holds roughly 250 to their training centre on the week of the show. ICW's still a thing!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted May 3 Paid Members Share Posted May 3 That Wrestlers' Network thing pisses me off - not that it exists, I'm glad it does, and so much the better - but Equity have actually published that. My company and various others have spent the past five fucking years working on the Dancers' Network campaign to get recognised pay and conditions for dancers under the Equity banner, which they agreed to - but are still fucking refusing to publish, meaning we can't bring any pressure to bear on any production that casts dancers but won't pay them properly. Fucking Equity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddymagic Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 27 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said: ICW's still a thing!? Clearly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Tommy! Posted May 3 Paid Members Share Posted May 3 6 hours ago, herbie747 said: For all the trash people talk about him, Sanjay Bagga wouldn't still be running shows if he was losing money on them Was he the one who tried to pay people in ham sandwiches once? 5 hours ago, herbie747 said: Len had a successful production company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westlondonmist Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 59 minutes ago, Tommy! said: Was he the one who tried to pay people in ham sandwiches once? I've heard the ham sandwiches story years ago, never sure it was true or not. I can believe it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 19 hours ago, westlondonmist said: I've heard the ham sandwiches story years ago, never sure it was true or not. I can believe it though. AGAIN IT WAS ON A BRIOCHE BUN MAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoryT Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Spoke to the guy who said he was an owner of Progress on another non wrestling forum "Creditors $461,000Thats all my capital from 2023. Its invested as a loan so i get paid first Yes very healthy. Negative equity does not mean its in the red." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 8 Paid Members Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, RoryT said: Spoke to the guy who said he was an owner of Progress on another non wrestling forum I used to tell people on forums I was on the 1PW booking committee because I had all 15 results in the World title tournament at All Or Nothing predicted on the back of beer mats and verified as correct for what was going to happen by Spud two weeks in advance, over beers, cigs and pork scratchings, so I was able to provide "spoilers" for the shows as my proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members waters44 Posted May 8 Paid Members Share Posted May 8 1 hour ago, RoryT said: Spoke to the guy who said he was an owner of Progress on another non wrestling forum "Creditors $461,000Thats all my capital from 2023. Its invested as a loan so i get paid first Yes very healthy. Negative equity does not mean its in the red." He must be mega wealthy or mega stupid (or both). Very healthy! So healthy it only needed a cash injection of hundreds of thousands of pounds and made a £250k loss last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted May 8 Paid Members Share Posted May 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, RoryT said: Spoke to the guy who said he was an owner of Progress on another non wrestling forum "Creditors $461,000Thats all my capital from 2023. Its invested as a loan so i get paid first Yes very healthy. Negative equity does not mean its in the red." Either lying or stupid. If you put your own liquid capital into a failing business then you're not getting it back ever, unless the company does a complete 180 - which it won't. The guy just threw good money after bad (if he's even telling the truth).  What assets would they even get in a liquidation sale? A wrestling ring, some mats, and some old banners? Edited May 8 by herbie747 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Progress Wrestling Chapter 138: Yes, But Have You Looked At The EBITDA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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