AEW Saturday Collision

[Hannibal Scorch]

2 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Not really.

Context of the thread being "Shocking, Surprising, Unlikely" asking if there's anything left as surprising as Austin wrestling or Punk coming back. Not that the suggestion is bad, but it's not exactly on the level that the spirit of the thread is meant for.

Come on now, they have been there since day 1 and never been tag champs despite being pushed a lot, it would be surprising for them to finally get the belts in year 5, especially if they turn heel. I mean, you could say it could be all 3 really.

[DavidB6937]

Some things probably aren't worth arguing about. One person disagreed with you in another topic. Not sure it needs to be dragged into this one too.

[air_raid]

45 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Come on now, they have been there since day 1 and never been tag champs despite being pushed a lot, it would be surprising for them to finally get the belts in year 5, especially if they turn heel. I mean, you could say it could be all 3 really.

I haven't got a dog in that fight.

[LaGoosh]

FTR vs House of Black was incredible, this along with Darby vs Takeshita and AEW have already put out two cracking matches in just the first week of the year. 

Something I've noticed with FTR is what makes their finishing stretches so good is that instead of just getting in position for the next spot they very naturally and violently beat or struggle their opponents into position then add some resistance before hitting the move. It's why there's a huge difference between them hitting a spike piledriver on the apron and the Lucha Bros doing it. That violent connective tissue between spots makes all the difference. It's why FTR aren't thought of as "spot monkeys" even though their big matches are pretty similar to the Young Bucks structure wise. It's all about what you do between the big spots, a little goes a long way.

[DavidB6937]

7 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

FTR vs House of Black was incredible, this along with Darby vs Takeshita and AEW have already put out two cracking matches in just the first week of the year. 

Something I've noticed with FTR is what makes their finishing stretches so good is that instead of just getting in position for the next spot they very naturally and violently beat or struggle their opponents into position then add some resistance before hitting the move. It's why there's a huge difference between them hitting a spike piledriver on the apron and the Lucha Bros doing it. That violent connective tissue between spots makes all the difference. It's why FTR aren't thought of as "spot monkeys" even though their big matches are pretty similar to the Young Bucks structure wise. It's all about what you do between the big spots, a little goes a long way.

Yeah I'd say beyond some of the carbon copy Bret Hart stuff, some of what they've really carried through to their performances today is that psychology and just little things that seem far more logical than anything. I always liked that about Bret.

[RedRooster]

7 hours ago, Hannibal Scorch said:

Come on now, they have been there since day 1 and never been tag champs despite being pushed a lot, it would be surprising for them to finally get the belts in year 5, especially if they turn heel. I mean, you could say it could be all 3 really.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick, Hannibal - I wasn’t shooting down your suggestion; in fact, I think it’s probably inevitable that they’ll win the relatively new trios belts - heck, Billy Gunn is champ right now. But as Air Raid said, that’s why it didn’t really fit the spirit of the thread. it was talking talking iconic, truly shocking moments of a certain level, the kind of moments that spark reactions and memes like Shocked Undertaker Guy. With the greatest respect to the Best Friends, I doubt you’d get Shocked Best Friends Guy. 

It’s not a bad idea - it’s just not something that is equivalent- even on an AEW level - of Austin returning or the streak ending. 

As far as Collision goes - I really like the idea of Hook going after Joe. It’s not something that I expected at all, but it’s a brilliant first feud for him. I really hope they continue the theme of everyone gunning for the World title, as happened with MJF towards the end of his reign.

[JLM]

I'd rather not see zombie Ric shambling his way down to the ring to open the show, but it made sense for the local crowd I guess. Sting in full "I don't give a fuck" mode for his retro promo was fun. 

Appreciated them taking the time to highlight the incredible Darby/Takeshita match from Wednesday. AEW often has an issue with putting on absolutely stupendous matches and then forgetting about them immediately. Same with the clips before Beretta/Kingston with the Wembley footage to show some of their history. More of this stuff, please.

Beretta/Kingston over delivered for me. I was not too inspired when Trent won the 4-way but it ended up being a great scrap. Cards on the table, I think Trent's nose being broken made it a bit better. To clarify, I'd prefer it if wrestlers didn't get hurt during matches, I am all for stopping matches when wrestlers are hurt, I desperately want Kota Ibushi to stop before he kills himself, I do not want wrestlers to maim or kill themselves for my entertainment. However, I cannot lie, in this particular instance I though it added heat and intensity to the proceedings. If this makes me a terrible person in anyone's eyes I will not disagree with them. 

Willow/Statlander promo was entirely devoid of content but I love them both and if they just wanted an excuse for Boots the lizard to be on screen I am OK with it. If I wrestled I'd have pictures of my dog in my entrance video in the hope that someone would ask me about her. I get it. 

Loved the Hook promo. These little vignette/video messages he does have a different feel from anything else on the show and suit his character perfectly. Definitely pricked my ears up a bit when he said he was coming for Joe. 100% on board for this. 

With the Undisputed Kingdom change up, Matt Taven had the chance to completely overhaul his look. Perfect opportunity to fix that whole situation he has going on. After careful consideration, he was like, "No, this hairstyle is a timeless classic and the creepy Michael Jackson gloves are just the coolest. I am GOOD." I have to respect the confidence I suppose. For you guys who value your time more than me and don't watch ROH, I should mention that last week's episode of ROH on Honor club was largely a desolate wasteland of tumbleweed and jobber squashes, so it was pretty funny to me that Rampage this week saw the Pure title being defended and Collision had an ROH tag title proving ground match. Eat shit, Honor Club subscribers.

I like the Cope Open a lot. Not fussed about Griff Garrison but Edge vs an eclectic collection of opponents I never thought I'd see him against sounds fun. Obviously a great device to elevate some up and comers too if they want. 

Skye Blue/Kiera was there... Just no heat at all for Kiera Hogan. Post Jade Cargill on the main shows she has had no direction whatsoever, which is a shame as she showed something in the Athena feud. I saw a video of her and Red Velvet doing the Prince Nana Dance with the man himself the other day and it was the first time I've seen either of them get to showcase any kind of personality in ages. I feel bad for them coming out to complete silence. 

Claudio/Hangman should be a good'un. Andrew Everett works as "Andrew The Giant" on the indies which is pretty terrific. He said on his Twitter they used camera tricks to make Claudio look bigger than him. 

Terrific main event as expected. Took them a little while to get the crowd into it but the second half had them hooked. As @LaGoosh says, FTR's greatest strengths are the little touches and their attention to detail. The sequence with Dax fighting Matthews and then going right into the Shatter Machine felt totally organic, and I love that it relied on Dax instinctively knowing where Cash would be. The power-plex spot was also great, where they hit it but Cash also partially caught knees to the gut, leaving him on wobbly legs and vulnerable to Buddy coming in with the flying knees. Normally in a situation like that FTR are good at having the member not involved in the cover standing watch to guard against the save, but here Cash had a good reason to be caught off guard. Great main event and I loved Garcia getting to be the hero, want to see him in the mix as often as possible post-CC. 
 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9 by JLM

[BomberPat]

9 hours ago, JLM said:

With the Undisputed Kingdom change up, Matt Taven had the chance to completely overhaul his look. Perfect opportunity to fix that whole situation he has going on. After careful consideration, he was like, "No, this hairstyle is a timeless classic and the creepy Michael Jackson gloves are just the coolest. I am GOOD."

This has been a problem I've had with a lot of wrestling since NXT went full Super-Indie, and ironically enough Adam Cole felt like the straw that broke the camel's back for me there, that he never took the opportunity to reinvent himself or really change up the act at all from ROH Adam Cole, who was never any different from PWG Adam Cole, or whatever, and then spent his entire time in NXT doing the same schtick again; even Johnny Gargano changed things up there more than he did.

A significant change in role should carry with it some opportunity for reinvention, and I don't think AEW are often very good at that, because often they would rather stick to the continuity of what somebody did elsewhere years ago rather than put their stamp on it. In the first Undisputed Kingdom (a name I hate, btw) promo, I was disappointed that Roderick Strong started with his "shouting Adam's name" bit, which was already a rubbish distillation of what made him an unexpectedly good goofball heel into one stupid catchphrase, but was even worse when trying to relaunch him as part of a serious threat. 

[Duke]

4 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

In the first Undisputed Kingdom (a name I hate, btw) promo, I was disappointed that Roderick Strong started with his "shouting Adam's name" bit, which was already a rubbish distillation of what made him an unexpectedly good goofball heel into one stupid catchphrase, but was even worse when trying to relaunch him as part of a serious threat. 

Yeah I bumped on this too. Surely the whole of all the goofy crap in the last months was a misdirection, and so retaining any of that is completely stupid.

[Supremo]

Yeah, half the reason I was so on board with Roddy and the Kingdom being revealed as Devil Goons was that it meant they could retcon all the shit comedy at Roddy’s gaff. It’s madness that they’re happy to draw a line under the toy giraffes, explaining all that bollocks away as a ruse, but Roddy’s one-note screaming of everyone’s names remains.

Ultimately though, it was just another episode of Collision that would have been improved tenfold if it had featured the Dalton Castle saga. I can’t let this go. It should be on national TV, not hidden away behind a paywall, with most people only seeing it via Twitter clips. Throw Ric Flair directly into the bin and replace all his TV time with Dalton scranning a sandwich on the way to the ring.

Edited January 9 by Supremo

[Statto]

36 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

This has been a problem I've had with a lot of wrestling since NXT went full Super-Indie, and ironically enough Adam Cole felt like the straw that broke the camel's back for me there, that he never took the opportunity to reinvent himself or really change up the act at all from ROH Adam Cole, who was never any different from PWG Adam Cole, or whatever, and then spent his entire time in NXT doing the same schtick again; even Johnny Gargano changed things up there more than he did.

I muse on things like this sometimes, and I think one of the reasons I was oddly fond of the Mace & T-Bar tag team (once they lost the silly masks) was the fact it was a bit of a throwback to the days when someone would move from one place to another and turn up at their new job as someone completely different.

Too much now is "remember that guy from over there? He's in this environment now, exactly the same!"

(There is obviously a time and a place for that too, though. Punk turning up in AEW with the same music and a near carbon copy of his most iconic logos from WWE for example)

[RedRooster]

18 minutes ago, Supremo said:

Ultimately though, it was just another episode of Collision that would have been improved tenfold if it had featured the Dalton Castle saga. I can’t let this go. It should be on national TV, not hidden away behind a paywall, with most people only seeing it via Twitter clips.

I mean, that's a problem with ROH in general - if there's something good that happens, rather than people thinking 'that's interesting, I need to watch ROH', the near universal reaction seems to be 'it's a shame that this is happening there' - I'd throw Athena's title reign in, and the rises of Willow Nightingale and Billie Starkz. Willow has obviously featured on AEW television, but performances that could have helped her break out as a major star are buried away. 

You're absolutely right in what you're saying here - but it's bizarre to be in a situation where something good or interesting on any TV show feels somewhat deflating. It's the wrestling equivalent of 'if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound'?

[mim731]

56 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

In the first Undisputed Kingdom (a name I hate, btw) 

It feels more egregious and lazy because there were plenty of other options available AND they've already used the "Undisputed" amalgamated with another group's name in AEW when they merged with The Elite for a bit. Also, The Devil's Kingdom was right there for the taking, and at least would have tied to the whole angle that created the group.  

[air_raid]

19 minutes ago, Statto said:

I muse on things like this sometimes, and I think one of the reasons I was oddly fond of the Mace & T-Bar tag team (once they lost the silly masks) was the fact it was a bit of a throwback to the days when someone would move from one place to another and turn up at their new job as someone completely different.

Too much now is "remember that guy from over there? He's in this environment now, exactly the same!"

See, I prefer that. For me, the "get a trademarked name on that guy, even if we know who he was somewhere else" thing is what I didn't like towards the end of the first boom and pre-Attitude. Ravishing Rick Rude was still Ravishing Rick Rude when he went to feud with Sting, thank God. When Davey Boy Smith jumped back and forth, he was still always The British Bulldog. You might call them Sid Justice and Legion of Doom instead of Sid Vicious and The Road Warriors, but they were the same act you loved on the other channel. "Why can't you just be Cactus Jack?" Why indeed, Mick. OK, scratch that, Mankind was a great creation. But you know what I mean. The Steiner Brothers still came in as The Steiner Brothers, The Anvil, Honky Tonk Man and Hacksaw Jim Duggan stayed the same going the other way. I think "The Boss" having to become Guardian Angel was my first memory of one side or the other having to act because of trademark infringement to change someone.

But maybe in hindsight, it was for the best. Otherwise while the Million Dollar Champion incarnation of Steve Austin was struggling to get over, they might have said "Hey, we're getting Flyin Brian in, let's put the Hollywood Blonds back together."

.... fuck it, I'd have been there for that too.

[BomberPat]

it's not so much even about the names, or the trademark infringement thing - I hate that it became such a trope in WWE that you'd have somebody show up in NXT under one name, and then reveal what their new NXT name would be, without ever explaining why you'd give yourself an entirely new name as a professional athlete. Nathan Frazer was on TV as Ben Carter for a few weeks before abruptly announcing he had a new name, as if that was a thing people do. They did a thing in NXT UK where Sha Samuels showed up under a different name, then within the same match announced that actually he wasn't that guy, he's Sha Samuels, and then went on and lost anyway - we're seeing you for the first time, we don't know how Sha is any different to whatever other name you were using, or why we should care!

It's more about just an opportunity for reinvention on any scale. Sometimes that can be as drastic as El Generico to Sami Zayn, sometimes it's that you've been working for years under a name that you came up with when you were 17, or that a promoter gave you for your first match, and you feel like you've outgrown that. As much as part of Taven and Bennett's whole reason for being in the position they're in is that they have history with Cole in ROH, they've never been presented as anything more than a couple of schmucks in AEW, and becoming part of what should be a top storyline was an opportunity to give themselves a fresh coat of paint. 

 

For every Rick Rude staying Rick Rude, there's a Dustin Rhodes becoming Goldust, or a Diamond Studd becoming Razor Ramon. But there's also your Terry Taylor becoming Red Rooster, or arguably more sideways moves like Johnny B. Badd becoming Marc Mero, so it's a case-by-case thing.