Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 Just now, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Yeah but before that... Coming out to a theme song that was a thinly veiled shot at the man. Don’t know how many times this has to be debunked but they had stated many times over the years on BTE how they’d love to have Kansas as their entrance music. That’s just reading into nothing. You’ve also neglected all the jibes Punk has done on socials and promos before and after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 1 hour ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Yeah but before that... I'm not talking about before the situation in the dressing room, though. That whole sorry debacle should have brought an end to any nonsense, and for one-half of the parties involved, it looks like it did. What happened previously that led to the dressing room dust-up? Both sides were to blame. I don't think that was ever argued against. After that situation, when things went way too far, Punk should have gone about things the same way. He didn't have to acknowledge that the Elite even existed. He had been handed his own fucking show on a silver platter. Where he was essentially allowed to make the final call on who was allowed in the building when it was being recorded. That was the time for him to get his head down and show exactly why the company was willing to put up with his bullshit. Do his paymasters a solid and repay some of the understanding they had shown him. But he didn't. The Elite, in public at least, did nothing to exacerbate matters. And I know, people can read things into stuff they did as little underhanded jibes, but Punk came back, and on the first night, he launched a full-on verbal assault. He didn't need to do that. Instead of building a feud and storyline with someone who he would actually be able to wrestle and make money with, he went after a bunch of guys who he'd never cross paths with on a professional level again. 1 hour ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Then are no good guys here. Only dickheads. While that's certainly true, there are varying levels of dickheadedness. To paint both sides as bad as each other isn't really on, I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Hannibal Scorch said: Don’t know how many times this has to be debunked but they had stated many times over the years on BTE how they’d love to have Kansas as their entrance music. That’s just reading into nothing. You’ve also neglected all the jibes Punk has done on socials and promos before and after. Source: The Elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, David said: IWhile that's certainly true, there are varying levels of dickheadedness. To paint both sides as bad as each other isn't really on, I don't think. Never said that. The minute Punk assaulted someone he was way worse. But as someone who has worked in toxic work environments where people in authority have the power to turn multiple people against you in a us vs you world, it can really mess you up psychologically. Again... all dicks. Edited September 5, 2023 by andrew "the ref" coyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 5 hours ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said: Source: The Elite. Correct . Back in 2021 as this time stamp shows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Obviously been playing the long game. So vindictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said: Obviously been playing the long game. So vindictive. Long Term Storytelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) Tony Khan could, possibly, be a better manager, a better businessman, a better promoter, a better person, whatever else. We don't know that, none of us work for him. But the justification for most of that argument has always been "he doesn't do anything about CM Punk". He fined him at least once that we know of, he suspended him and subjected him to whatever passes for an "investigation" in AEW twice, and now he's fired him. I'm not sure what else people have expected him to do beyond some vague idea by ex-wrestling writers that he should have someone backstage for the sole purpose of intimidating people, which doesn't strike me as the most mature or effective way of de-escalating a situation, nor is it conducive to a positive working environment. And, sure, The Elite have made some digs against Punk. But this is fucking CM Punk we're talking about. If you removed inside jokes, references and jibes at other wrestlers from his repertoire, you could fit the transcription of all the promos he's cut in his career into a Christmas cracker. I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who decides that what they've been doing for years towards other people is suddenly unacceptable when directed towards them - that's the actions of an arsehole and a thin-skinned bully, it's the dickhead down the pub who slags off everyone else and defends it as "banter" and then gets aggro when you direct any of it towards him. Edited September 5, 2023 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 I think it probably says something not great about his character that in his entire time in an MMA gym you didn’t hear much about him escalating disagreements with violence, but in AEW it seems to be a theme. That doesn’t suggest a principled man with an unbridled temper, it suggests someone acutely aware of who he can and can’t push around and making a conscious decision based on that. If all the accusations against him are true, that’s textbook bullying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, BomberPat said: But the justification for most of that argument has always been "he doesn't do anything about CM Punk". He fined him at least once that we know of, he suspended him and subjected him to whatever passes for an "investigation" in AEW twice, and now he's fired him. I'm not sure what else people have expected him to do beyond some vague idea by ex-wrestling writers that he should have someone backstage for the sole purpose of intimidating people, which doesn't strike me as the most mature or effective way of de-escalating a situation, nor is it conducive to a positive working environment. He might have not brought him back, given him his own show where he was free to ban people from appearing, change pre approved angles and do sly digs to his enemies with absolutely no recourse. These are the clear management issues. He fined and suspended him when Punk's behaviour was so out of control it couldn't be ignored, but if he'd have stayed a low level menace, you get the impression Khan would have carried on ignoring it. Edited September 5, 2023 by gmoney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 1 minute ago, gmoney said: He might have not brought him back, given him his own show where he was free to ban people from appearing, change pre approved angles and do sly digs to his enemies with absolutely no recourse. Mostly fair points - I don't know how much of Collision being "the CM Punk show" was a Tony Khan call and how much was a WBD call, but it definitely could have been better managed. The sly digs to his enemies with no recourse isn't strictly, true, though - Punk was fined for the promo referencing Hangman Page, and apparently apologised for it, though you'd be forgiven for not noticing given that it was neither As Loud nor As Public as The Disrespect. It's wrestling, and top stars will always be given more leeway. I just don't think it's the story of Punk walking all over Tony Khan that it's sometimes been painted as, any more than Shawn Michaels or Hulk Hogan "walked all over" Vince McMahon. The cash cow will always get away with murder, the difference is that CM Punk spent decades trying to convince people that he wasn't That Guy, when he absolutely was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 I get what you're saying BomberPat but unless Dynamite opens with an ageing dwarf impersonating CM Punk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King of Old School Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 Punk winning the 2024 Rumble 10 years after his last appearance with the company seems too good to pass up on. Make it happen, H! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarlettChad Posted September 5, 2023 Share Posted September 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, The King of Old School said: Punk winning the 2024 Rumble 10 years after his last appearance with the company seems too good to pass up on. Make it happen, H! IF he returns, don't reward him with that. He doesn't deserve to win The Rumble. It'll only make his rotten ego worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted September 5, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted September 5, 2023 29 minutes ago, BomberPat said: It's wrestling, and top stars will always be given more leeway. I just don't think it's the story of Punk walking all over Tony Khan that it's sometimes been painted as, any more than Shawn Michaels or Hulk Hogan "walked all over" Vince McMahon. The cash cow will always get away with murder, the difference is that CM Punk spent decades trying to convince people that he wasn't That Guy, when he absolutely was. Shaun Michaels favouritism is one of the worst examples of man management going, especially as he wasn't even a standout draw by any metric. Hogan in WWF wasn't what I would describe as a problem. He might have quashed feuds and got his own way in booking, but I can't think of many glaring behavioural problems during that time? People pointing the other way at Vince as some sort of man management genius are barking up the wrong tree anyway. He just a was a divide a rule arsehole, rather than a bury head in sand type like TK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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