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Been reading and watching a lot of stuff from 99-01 the last few weeks & I forgot how much of an attraction/over Chyna was during that era. Was thinking what would've happened to her career in the fed if HHH hadn't been off with Steph on the sly, and she re-signed in 2001 instead of her contract not being renewed. Do you reckon she would have eventually gone back to wrestling men (seeing as womens scene was dire back then & Chyna saw that as a demotion) and having another IC run in the next few years, or had she achieved all she was going to by 2001?  she still had a fair bit of name value for a while after she left, the 2nd Playboy under her own name did quite well apparently

Would have been interesting to see how she would get on with the current crop of womens wrestlers too. She surely would have been invited back for one of the womens rumbles at least, considering some of the non-entities they've brought back to make up the numbers in those.

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Back in I think 2012 me and my mate celebrated the New Year under the gimmick "Chynese New Year" where we ordered chinese food and played Chyna's theme as midnight struck, because at age 22 my life wa

I’m guessing your dad chose your username then? 

Jim Ross is the fat lad who hangs out with the bullies, joins in picking on other people, and gets pink bellied when there's nobody else to bully. He's a right bitter old cunt. Has been for decades.

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My partner and I were watching random old PPVs a lot over Christmas, and we watched her match with Lita that turned out to be her final match, and I was wondering where that angle could have gone. I highly doubt they booked with any kind of long-term plans for the women back then, anyway. My thoughts were something like this;

  • Her last match was Judgment Day 2001, defending the Women's Title against Lita. The story was that Chyna had steamrolled through all the women in the company, and none of them could hang with her - that wasn't really true, given that she had only actually defended the belt against Ivory, Trish and Molly Holly at this point - so Lita challenged her in the spirit of friendly competition.
     
  • Chyna beat Lita, who was the only woman presented as anything like on her level - she was a woman who actually wrestled, and routinely got involved in men's matches. But it was done in such a way that could have led to a rematch that Lita could eventually win, and that was how I felt it was probably going to go - Lita proving herself, and an effective passing of the torch. After that, I'm really not sure what there was left for Chyna to accomplish.
     
  • This was also happening concurrently with another angle (and one for the "Did That Really Happen?" thread) - Eddy Guerrero knocking about with the Hardy Boyz. Eddie came out during the match to watch, with the commentators mentioning his recent lurking around "Team X-Treme", but also his history with Chyna. It seemed to be that Eddie was sucking up to the Hardys to try and get with Lita, but in one of his final matches before getting fired he (IIRC) teamed with the Hardys against Edge & Christian & Rhyno, and actually "took a bullet" in pushing Matt Hardy out of the way and taking a Gore in his place, and he continued to team with them for a week or two after that point. So maybe Chyna would have ended up involved in whatever was going on in that storyline.
     
  • After Chyna left, the Women's Title was retired until November. It felt like a lifetime back then, given that the entire Invasion storyline happened in the intervening six months, but if she'd stuck around it wouldn't have been inconceivable that she'd have kept the title for that long, even if just as a vanity belt. There were still women on the roster she hadn't defended against - she never faced Jacqueline, and could have had a run of squash matches against the likes of Terri, or the soon-to-debut Stacy Keibler and Torrie Wilson, or rematches with Ivory, Molly Holly and Lita, that could all have easily seen her through another six months alongside whatever other angles she might have worked.
     
  • When the Women's Title was brought back at Survivor Series 2001, it was won by Trish Stratus - depending how long they had planned for Trish to become the next star of the division (unlikely that they had it in mind while Chyna was still around, admittedly), an alternate universe version of events could have seen her be the one to upset Chyna and win the belt.
     
  • The same match saw Jazz debut - Wikipedia says they signed her and sent her to OVW to train "for six months", though from what I can gather she only started working OVW in October 2001. But there's someone else who, depending on when they first had interest in her, could easily have been a viable challenger for Chyna at a later date - while I doubt the WWF were thinking about anything remotely along these lines, a dominant run by Chyna as Women's Champion could have served as a catalyst for an increasingly competitive and legitimate women's division, as it would have given them cause to bring in women that would be believable against her. And, while there was still far too much in the way of Bra & Panties matches, pillow fights and sexist nonsense within the women's division and outside of it, there was a bit of a pivot towards more legitimate competition in early 2002
    Victoria debuted for the WWF in 2002, but had been on a developmental deal for almost two years prior, so could have conceivably been called up earlier, and would have made a great heel foil for Chyna. 
     

 

I suppose the alternative to all that is that she turned heel. Dominating the division and saying that no one was good enough to face her could easily have led to a more egotistical character, again with Lita - and, potentially, eventually Trish - as the babyfaces trying to dethrone her. Lita, having narrowly lost the first match, could have been denied a rematch and, upon eventually earning one, been cheated out of winning it. 

The real struggle is thinking of "what's left for Chyna?" after losing the belt, though. It seemed like there was an array of natural story progressions to see her eventually put someone over, but it's hard to conceive of a world in which she just became another woman in the division, or see where she would fit in with the men's division post-2001, or with the Invasion. Sadly, looking at how little she accomplished elsewhere outside of the WWF, the answer seems to be that she would have been done regardless of what went on with Triple and Stephanie.

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2 hours ago, BomberPat said:

The real struggle is thinking of "what's left for Chyna?" after losing the belt, though. It seemed like there was an array of natural story progressions to see her eventually put someone over, but it's hard to conceive of a world in which she just became another woman in the division, or see where she would fit in with the men's division post-2001, or with the Invasion. Sadly, looking at how little she accomplished elsewhere outside of the WWF, the answer seems to be that she would have been done regardless of what went on with Triple and Stephanie.

I could honestly see them putting her over one of the WCW guys for the WCW title during the invasion, if she had signed back on with them that is. It would be a chance for them to make the first female "world" champion, and a chance for Vince to further show how his show was better than the WCW's 'rasslin.

 

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Chyna wrestling men had a shelf life and a ceiling, and it was over. Plus, she was awful, and when the average level of talent skyrocketed in 2000, it was standing out more and more that she wasn't best in that mix. Less was more.

She grumbled about wrestling women again, blew off the injury angle they wrote for her to stop her wrestling men because she's ace, then said she wouldn't put over Lita, and that was it. 

Obviously she was done politically anyway with the HHH/Steph romance, but she boxed herself in to having no viable role. The only thing she had left was the Sable full of herself heel turn and putting over Lita, but once that's done, so is she.

So pretending they keep her on after that shit storyline with Lita and refusing to job, you've got no bigger star for her to work with from there other than Steph, which they weren't going to do.

I suppose you could have put her with another guy in a new role and had her bumping more like Sherri, but not sure who the best candidate would be in 2001.

Either way, the days of Chyna being treated as a massive superstar were over. I absolutely can see her being on the shortlist of people moved to WCW during the few weeks a genuine split was planned and being treated well, but it would have bombed.

Edited by Liam O'Rourke
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I remember when she left, there was talks of her hosting a chat show, being the Female Terminator and acting in a Sitcom. And by November, she was on Howard Stern getting Herman Munster sound effects played over her and then taking a job with Inoki. It was weird as fuck how she seemed to be leaving as a major star and in a short time was willing to do anything on shite reality shows. Sable was the same. Sable and Chyna both didnt see that the machine behind them was as much to do with it than they were.

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Back in I think 2012 me and my mate celebrated the New Year under the gimmick "Chynese New Year" where we ordered chinese food and played Chyna's theme as midnight struck, because at age 22 my life was already in a shambles. The one-time gimmick turned into a tradition where we did this every year, as we started including other people including friends, my brother and my wife.
When she died, we started the "Chynese Memorial New Year" which was exactly the same except she was dead and we carried that on right up until this year, where due to covid I was in bed around 9.30 and we knocked it on the head.

I would argue that my booking of Chyna, as a shoddy and slightly depressing event-based pun is better than any booking she would have got in WWF if she had stayed past that Lita angle.

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Were politics from Trips and Steph an actual thing or did she use it as she excuse as why things didn't go her way?

She was perfect for the attitude era but come 2002-03 for example she'd either have to evolve her character or end up looking out of place like Gunn, Holly, Rikishi etc amoungst the new blood.

Sounds odd but I could see her being a 2nd/bodyguard for Scott Steiner if he came in as a heel.

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13 minutes ago, The Cutting Edge said:

Sounds odd but I could see her being a 2nd/bodyguard for Scott Steiner if he came in as a heel.

Giving Scott Steiner a bodyguard would be like giving Bushwhacker Luke a toothbrush though. Not needed.

I listened to a clip of Jim Ross and Conrad (I know, my own fault) recently on the subject of Chyna’s departure from the WWF and the whole Triple H/Stephanie thing. And surprise, surprise, Good Ol’ JR came across as a right arsehole. He was on about Chyna basically having a bit of a breakdown and crying to him about her breakup with Triple H and was taking the piss about how she was crying and all sorts. It’s funny Ian mentioned Herman Munster because JR said something like ‘she sounded like Fred Gwynee when she cried’. Then seconds later he was saying it really effected him to see how crushed she was. She wasn’t without flaws obviously, and Ross also claimed she was demanding Steve Austin money or something before she left. But he sounded like a right horrible bastard mocking her like that. 

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1 minute ago, wandshogun09 said:

Giving Scott Steiner a bodyguard would be like giving Bushwhacker Luke a toothbrush though. Not needed.

True it wasn't needed but other than being miscast as a face I think Steiner lacked not having Midaja or his freaks with him, Chyna and Trips looked great together in mid 99 when his big push started, that's the kind of thing I was basing it on.

If nothing else it may had added a few years to there run 

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59 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Giving Scott Steiner a bodyguard would be like giving Bushwhacker Luke a toothbrush though. Not needed.

I listened to a clip of Jim Ross and Conrad (I know, my own fault) recently on the subject of Chyna’s departure from the WWF and the whole Triple H/Stephanie thing. And surprise, surprise, Good Ol’ JR came across as a right arsehole. He was on about Chyna basically having a bit of a breakdown and crying to him about her breakup with Triple H and was taking the piss about how she was crying and all sorts. It’s funny Ian mentioned Herman Munster because JR said something like ‘she sounded like Fred Gwynee when she cried’. Then seconds later he was saying it really effected him to see how crushed she was. She wasn’t without flaws obviously, and Ross also claimed she was demanding Steve Austin money or something before she left. But he sounded like a right horrible bastard mocking her like that. 

I think Prichard said the same sort of thing on his pod with Conrad (that I can't believe I listened to for so long in retrospect with both of them being such annoying pricks) kinda mocking her even though they know how sad her life panned out.

I suppose it was also bad timing for Chyna with her contract coming up for renewal coinciding with WCW going out of business. If it was a 6/8 months prior she probably could have gotten a decent deal out of a desperate WCW I'd imagine, or at least leveraged Vince for money closer to what she was asking. A prima-donna heel run and eventually losing the title to Trish was probably the best that could have happened if she hung about in the WWF, or maybe jobbing a few of the WCW lads out during the Invasion.

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Back in the early 2000s I reckon the best thing would have been to turn her heel and book her as a stable/cult leader with a band of female talent around her (Like Taker in the ministry days). She would not wrestle much apart from the odd squash on PPV and heelish bullying on TV then build a star over a long period to eventually face her at Mania.

And then by the time that had ran its course the business would have evolved to the current state of high performance women who she could work competitively with. I'd have loved to see her work with the current crop of world class female talent there is today. 

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“Steiner & Chyna” (lol) is the best idea I’ve ever heard for any fantasy booking of Chyna staying - not that I’ve heard much of that, to be fair. It’s a shame stars wouldn’t have aligned for Poppa to come over at the purchase of WCW when the weird sex appeal that the WWF had managed to convince the world that Chyna had, would still have been near its peak. The promo writes itself : “I couldn’t come here without a freak, and I found the biggest freak in this company.” They’d have looked good together and she could actually beat people up. Plus it would have saved us from BPP v HHH for two reasons, the other being Scotty would have had to come in as a heel.

Otherwise, it’s remarkable how far her star had fallen between the end of 2000 and her exit, turning heel, putting Lita over and being shown the door was all that was going to happen.

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It's not much, but the only thing I can think of for Chyna post-2001, apart from the aforementioned Styna team-up, would be to turn her heel and position her as the "Andre" of the women's division to Trish Stratus' "Hogan". Just the simple act of another woman being able to bodyslam her could've been hyped up. And if she'd been turned heel and teamed up with Big Poppa Pump, she'd have an excuse to switch to the perfect heel finish, the Chyna Recliner.

EDIT: If, though, she didn't want to go back to the women's division as people have mentioned, this is all moot.

Edited by Carbomb
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15 hours ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

I remember when she left, there was talks of her hosting a chat show, being the Female Terminator and acting in a Sitcom. And by November, she was on Howard Stern getting Herman Munster sound effects played over her and then taking a job with Inoki. It was weird as fuck how she seemed to be leaving as a major star and in a short time was willing to do anything on shite reality shows. Sable was the same. Sable and Chyna both didnt see that the machine behind them was as much to do with it than they were.

I think part of it in Chyna's case was that her "personal demons" had probably set in way earlier than people recognised, and the WWF had done what they do and done an excellent job at keeping it all under wraps. Chyna at 100% probably could have diversified into acting and just general celebrity life - a couple of years later and she'd have seemed a shoe-in for a "Hogan Knows Best" style reality show, but outside of the WWF no one wanted to touch her.

In terms of "Stone Cold Money", I heard she didn't want to re-sign for less than a million. I think the Chyna of '99/'00 could have made a genuine case for commanding that sort of money, but by mid-2001 and with WCW done and dusted, she already wasn't the star she had been, and there wasn't much left for her to do that would have made for a return on that investment. 

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