Paid Members air_raid Posted December 24, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 24, 2020 5 hours ago, Murtz said: Where did it all go wrong for Alli? A few years ago he was brilliant and I can't remember when it started going downhill. Jose? Injury? 5 hours ago, Mr_Danger said: It was pre Jose wasn’t it? At least towards the end of Poch’s time. Obviously Jose is going to speed up the process of turning a sow’s ear in to sow’s shit. He peaked in 16/17, as did Spurs. His goals and assists steadily declined in each of the following seasons, much as Spurs declined. A combination of not really being played in the best position for him (because Eriksen was there) and believing his own hype, he started becoming guilty of trying to do too much and clearly was playing believing he was better than he was. Big sponsorship deals and rubbing shoulders with the elite players of Europe in some of them, and the interest in his “brand” seemed to distract him from actually playing well, and apart from a few games papering over the cracks (at home to Real, the win at Stamford Bridge) he lost his influence. To my eyes fame and his agent convinced him he was next Lionel Messi, which translated to how he was trying to perform on the pitch, when he could have carved himself out a great career as the next Frank Lampard. Now at 24 he’s in no mans land, branded lazy by the public and low on confidence because the manager has no confidence in him, because he thinks he’s lazy too. Unfortunately the system played now doesn’t suit him either, as his play is too narrow to play either side of Kane and the three behind are breaker-destroyers and have bite that he doesn’t, with Sissoko eager to play out and Ndombele carrying an attacking threat too. Alli is a round peg and we have a formation of square holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 On 12/24/2020 at 10:09 PM, air_raid said: He peaked in 16/17, as did Spurs. His goals and assists steadily declined in each of the following seasons, much as Spurs declined. A combination of not really being played in the best position for him (because Eriksen was there) and believing his own hype, he started becoming guilty of trying to do too much and clearly was playing believing he was better than he was. Big sponsorship deals and rubbing shoulders with the elite players of Europe in some of them, and the interest in his “brand” seemed to distract him from actually playing well, and apart from a few games papering over the cracks (at home to Real, the win at Stamford Bridge) he lost his influence. To my eyes fame and his agent convinced him he was next Lionel Messi, which translated to how he was trying to perform on the pitch, when he could have carved himself out a great career as the next Frank Lampard. Now at 24 he’s in no mans land, branded lazy by the public and low on confidence because the manager has no confidence in him, because he thinks he’s lazy too. Unfortunately the system played now doesn’t suit him either, as his play is too narrow to play either side of Kane and the three behind are breaker-destroyers and have bite that he doesn’t, with Sissoko eager to play out and Ndombele carrying an attacking threat too. Alli is a round peg and we have a formation of square holes. You're entitled to your opinion but I absolutely don't agree with those bits bolded at all, unless you have evidence to prove me wrong. Dele, along with everyone else in that squad, declined as the whole Poch 'project' started to unravel. He did, along with the team, have a standout season in 16/17, and then in the past two seasons only managed to make 25 appearances and it was all very stop start. Now he finds himself with a manager who doesn't reward or recognise bravery, creativity and just wants 'soldiers' who will stick rigidly to his tactics and systems. (I have my own wild opinions on Mourinho but that will take too long). The irony is, that apart from Son and Kane, none of the players are performing anywhere near as well as they should be, and Dele could 100% play and do all the things they are doing just as well (Hojbjerg aside). Can Dele be as creative as Lo Celso? Yes. Can he find pockets of space to link defensive midfield and attack like Ndombele? Yes. Can he run off Kane and score goals on the break? Well, fuck me he can. This whole 'he doesn't fit into a system' thing is incredibly lazy IMO and distracts from the type of player he is. I am also convinced that there MUST be something else going on with this whole situation. AFAIK he does train well and hard (but let's use the Amazon clip of Jose to prove that wrong), he has just as much footballing ability as anyone in the squad, Levy and the club are desperate to keep him and Mourinho loves(loved?) him as well. Tinfoil hat time, but it just doesn't add up at all. I don't think he'll be leaving in January unless PSG want to buy out his contract, but maybe him and Poch are destined to be together again. Poor Eric Dier In other news, Spurs v Brentford! Best crack out the half and half shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Danger Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 I always assumed the Billy big bollocks stuff was part of the usual media narrative of ‘Black footballer is a gang banging gigolo’ they love to run with but quite a few Spurs fans echo those points that Air Raid brought up and they’re not the kind of people I’d question the motives of. Unlike the woman in work who was citing bad attitude and arrogance as reasons Curtis Jones wouldn’t make it before he’d barely kicked a ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr_Danger said: I always assumed the Billy big bollocks stuff was part of the usual media narrative of ‘Black footballer is a gang banging gigolo’ they love to run with but quite a few Spurs fans echo those points that Air Raid brought up and they’re not the kind of people I’d question the motives of. Unlike the woman in work who was citing bad attitude and arrogance as reasons Curtis Jones wouldn’t make it before he’d barely kicked a ball. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I'm sure Air Raid and others have valid reasons for saying/thinking that... However, Dele Alli has been, IMO, unfairly attacked since day dot, and its definitely down to your first point. How dare a young person play video games and wear JUMPERS!!! And have a car! And a girlfriend! I'm sure this can be disproven and smacks a bit of "well he was nice to me when I met him" but I've never heard a bad word about him from people I trust and know who have interacted with him. I'll take their word over @tanguysauce1234 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted December 26, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 26, 2020 Alli CAN do all the things mentioned but for three years hasn’t. Instead of sitting deep and doing his best work off the ball (e.g. clever positioning) or with limited touches, he started keeping the ball and taking on as many players as possible. The goals from distance, the quick one-twos, the coming into the box late and feasting on tap ins and headers, everything that made him Kane’s best “number 10” ... it stopped. Funnily enough, all the things Son is doing now but more reliable in a one-on-one. My only evidence being what I’ve watched for 90 minutes every league game possible since we bought the player. Gradually he just started playing differently from the way that had made him a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 26, 2020 Share Posted December 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, air_raid said: Alli CAN do all the things mentioned but for three years hasn’t. Instead of sitting deep and doing his best work off the ball (e.g. clever positioning) or with limited touches, he started keeping the ball and taking on as many players as possible. The goals from distance, the quick one-twos, the coming into the box late and feasting on tap ins and headers, everything that made him Kane’s best “number 10” ... it stopped. Funnily enough, all the things Son is doing now but more reliable in a one-on-one. My only evidence being what I’ve watched for 90 minutes every league game possible since we bought the player. Gradually he just started playing differently from the way that had made him a success. I didn't doubt what you'd seen on the pitch, I don't even disagree with some of that, more your points about him "believing his own hype, believing he was better than he is and his fame and agent convincing him he was better than Messi". You got all that from watching him play football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted December 26, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 26, 2020 1 hour ago, SuperBacon said: I didn't doubt what you'd seen on the pitch, I don't even disagree with some of that, more your points about him "believing his own hype, believing he was better than he is and his fame and agent convincing him he was better than Messi". You got all that from watching him play football? I did. He spent a couple of seasons playing with (I perceived) arrogance and his media profile and sponsorship deals seemed to increase at the exact inverse trend to his form on the pitch. That BT advert (where he’s doing different sports) that started airing between seasons and the articles suggesting he was going to be on the cover of FIFA 18 (eventually turned out to be bollocks) preceded his relatively disappointing 17-18 season and fairly drab World Cup, goal aside. He then started pocketing more cash from deals with Lynx, Adidas and other big names, then got his HyperX deal half way through 18-19 during which his contribution dipped again. Kane stayed constant, Son improved year on year, but its uncanny the way the timings of Dele becoming more and more of a big shot in terms of off pitch revenue streams coincide with his play degrading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted December 26, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 26, 2020 (edited) Dele is somebody I'd never have pegged down as being arrogant to be honest. He seems quite humble, his personality is very down to earth from the interviews and documentary clips I've seen of him over the years. Not sure what all these sponsorship deals have got to do with the price of fish. It's the tired old 'don't have to try hard as earning loads of money' argument that I don't buy. Messi's revenue has increased more and more each year. No wonder he hasn't been any good since 2011... Edited December 26, 2020 by PunkStep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted December 27, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 27, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, PunkStep said: Not sure what all these sponsorship deals have got to do with the price of fish. It's the tired old 'don't have to try hard as earning loads of money' argument that I don't buy. Just saying what I see. For a sustained period the quality of his play dropped the higher his profile became. Could be causality or could be coincidental. I don’t WANT the lad not to play or recover his form by any stretch. I delighted in defending him to my neutral mates when he set up Moura for the winning goal against Ajax after being told “he’s been shit for two years” for several weeks, his performance against West Ham in Mourinho’s first game in charge was superb and I was at Old Trafford last season when he scored a great goal and I was desperate for him to have turned the corner. But it was fleeting. 17 hours ago, PunkStep said: Messi's revenue has increased more and more each year. No wonder he hasn't been any good since 2011... And, fish? Do all people react the same to the same or similar circumstances? No, they don’t. [/Garth] Edited December 27, 2020 by air_raid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briefcase Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 19 hours ago, air_raid said: I did. He spent a couple of seasons playing with (I perceived) arrogance and his media profile and sponsorship deals seemed to increase at the exact inverse trend to his form on the pitch. That BT advert (where he’s doing different sports) that started airing between seasons and the articles suggesting he was going to be on the cover of FIFA 18 (eventually turned out to be bollocks) preceded his relatively disappointing 17-18 season and fairly drab World Cup, goal aside. He then started pocketing more cash from deals with Lynx, Adidas and other big names, then got his HyperX deal half way through 18-19 during which his contribution dipped again. Kane stayed constant, Son improved year on year, but its uncanny the way the timings of Dele becoming more and more of a big shot in terms of off pitch revenue streams coincide with his play degrading. I remember him being in the Pepsi advert as well (With Messi I think) at the last World Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 Nothing to say really. This sums it all up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lorne Malvo Posted December 27, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 27, 2020 I've gotta say, Spurs are probably the worst team Wolves have played all season. Outside of that first minute goal, they did the square root of fuck all for 90 minutes. I'm actually embarassed we only got a point out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lorne Malvo said: I've gotta say, Spurs are probably the worst team Wolves have played all season. Outside of that first minute goal, they did the square root of fuck all for 90 minutes. I'm actually embarassed we only got a point out of it. You definitely should've won, and easily so. That header at the end should've been buried. Spurs were absolutely fucking shit. The only joy I have watching them is Tanguy Ndombele. When he goes off, I am incredibly tempted to turn it off. Joyless wank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted December 27, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted December 27, 2020 Sherwood, crap results?? I'll make him read out those win percentages! The greatest of all time. What a horribly negative team Spurs have become, which obviously isn't surprising. If you (and by you I mean Levy) make a deal with the devil then you know what you're getting yourself into. A couple of weeks ago it looked like you were going to get the obligatory Jose honeymoon period. Doesn't look likely now, even with Kane (he's no Calum Wilson tho) and Son playing out of their skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted December 27, 2020 Share Posted December 27, 2020 "I ain't never felt this bad ever..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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