All Tories Are Cunts thread

[Loki]

10 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

There's a massive amount of wastage in the civil service and the NHS. I do get why the Tory approach is to try and squeeze it and force people to be efficient. Whereas Labour just chuck more money at the problem. The latter works though. Services are better under Labour government. More people are employed. More money is passed around. The former doesn't work and never has. It just leads to higher waiting times, angrier, more miserable people and employees and it hasn't touched the deficits.

The former doesn't work but the latter explodes the budgets of those organisations and encourages the corruption.  I'm hoping one day a government will actually try fixing the problem - which is low-level corruption in the tendering processes.  Everyone gooses the numbers when it's council work, or when it's NHS work, and everyone knows it and everyone accepts it.  THAT'S what has to change.

It's a very British problem, this polite corruption.  That's why HS2 has become so contentious - it is considerably more expensive to build high speed rail per kilometre in the UK than in comparable EU countries.  That's not because our wages are excessive, or taxes, it's just grift - layers of consultants and managers and subcontractors adding their percentages knowing that oversight is non-existent.  Same goes for defence procurement, government IT... it's endemic.

And for the Tories at least, it's deliberate because so many Tory politicians have their snouts in the trough.

Take councils.  There used to be a thing called the Audit Commission.  It appointed independent district auditors to audit local governments' budgets to check they weren't cooking their books or making ridiculous investments.  It also used to audit the NHS.

The Conservative government abolished it in 2015, leaving local councils free to do whatever they wanted with their money, and so a bunch of them are duly going bankrupt because they got conned into stupid investment schemes - Woking being a good example.  Consider the sort of people who are councillors - provincial low-level businessmen, landlords and car dealership owners.  Not exactly high flying financial wizards.

Because we're the UK and not an African country we all like to think that corruption doesn't exist, but it does and it's costing us all a fortune.

I'd like to see a political party actually tackle this.

[WeeAl]

57 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

 

There's a massive amount of wastage in the civil service and the NHS. 

Oh absolutely. Part of that is a wasteful culture, but a large part of it is the constraints of the system that's been created. Two such examples. 

A masterkey recently broke for one of our stores. Needs to be locked due to the chemicals and machinery that's kept in there, and that on the other side of the store you have a double door that opens to the outside of the building so, you want the internal door to be lockable as an extra measure. Problem being several people need access to this store, so I wanted more than one new masterkey cut in case of loss, it snapped etc. Again, knowing the arm would be put in, I still didn't expect a bill of more than £100. Turns out there was an excuse that the centre didn't want spare master keys floating around, so I had to look at alternative options. One being a key box on the outside of the wall. That was dismissed too.

We ended up getting a combination lock put into the door, as the other two options had been culled by various people.  Of course the combination lock, which I was told was the choice I had to go for, was the most expensive option of the three. When the supplier and contractor got hold of it, purchasing and installing said lock turned out to be £750. I'd have been more than happy with three keys at £20 quid a pop. 

A Friend of mine had to move a floor buffer one time in an admin building. A two floor affair. The only lift they had was one of those filing type lifts, fit to put boxes of charts and stuff in, but not a person. Unfortunately, the guy didn't lock the handle in place, and the handle dropped horizontally when the lift moved, pulling the buffer handle up through the plasterboard on the outside of the lift. He knew he was going to get in trouble for it, but didn't expect that they would threaten termination over it, using the excuse of the "extent of the damage caused". The extent being, a straight line hole in a plaster board wall going up a few feet. The price quoted by the contractor and the reason the fella was in such diff's, up until the union saved his bacon and calmed the situation down? £10,000.

One of the other guys in the department, joiner by trade, when he heard about all the fuss, offered to step in and fix it himself,  saying he could do it for £150. £180 if he wanted to keep a few quid for himself. Needless to say, he didn't - couldn't - get the gig and the budget got bled for another five figures. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by WeeAl

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

I know you're not in this boat but, honestly, this sort of narrative is what drives the "They're all the same" bullshit that keeps stupid people voting for the fucking Tories time after time. I know Labour aren't the party the left wants them to be but, they'd still rule with far more empathy and sense of fairness than these awful bastards ever would. The only way I see that Labour don't win the next general election is if everyone who doesn't lean right spends the next year arguing amongst themselves like that last few years.

Labour are, in my opinion, where the tories were under Major. Sure, they aren’t as bad as where the tories currently are (and it’ll get worse in the election) but why on earth would a left winger vote for them. 
 

They aren’t as bad as the tories but they’re still bad. I’m certainly not going to vote for a right leaning party just because they aren’t called the conservatives. 

[SuperBacon]

3 hours ago, westlondonmist said:

Yeah the cuts at my council are dreadful. By 25/26 my directorate has been asked to find 11m of service savings per annum(so not including staff but I imagine cuts there too with hire freezes), and children's and adult services have to cut about 5m between them annually. Unfortunately it doesn't stop the councillors complaining we aren't doing enough to provide better services. Well they are moaning that the money isn't there to do what was on their manifesto promises and blaming council officers for it.

Councils in general are skint, average council apparently 33m in the red. Some of that is though shit investment too. Next couple of years I think many will be at the point where they will do what they legally have to, but no more. 

 

I reckon there are easy savings to be made everywhere and thats asset management,  but the old boy councillors won't have it as those savings are seen as prestige buildings.

Have to be careful as you never know, but theoretically if I worked in a team of 5, and theoretically in a wider team of 20, and the theoretically a wider directorate of 200 and the majority worked from home.

Say theoretically we had two dedicated rooms for us for when we go to the flagship building, and theoretically every time we go in there are possibly 20-25 empty desks in each of those rooms, then commercial sense would be to either sell off that space or rent it. 

But they won't,  as like I said, the old boy councillors like the fact that it "represents" us. That's not particularly a government moan, but felt relevant.

What is a government moan is that of next year (April I think) this current government will no longer support LEPs (Local Enterprise Partnerships) from central government, and instead that will be supported from local government.

Way to boost the economy lads!

The country is falling apart and all that short little prick can do is stand there and bang on about "a man is a man and a woman is a woman"

Well, a cunt is a cunt. And you're a cunt.

[Jazzy G]

The problem isn't the parties, it's the system. If we could get a true feel for the electorate's voting intent from a system like PR, then parties would hopefully start trying to actually court their vote and get things done as opposed to "vote for us because we're not them." First past the post is a horrible system that strangles everybody's choices. If it means we end up with a couple of far right dick heads in parliament then it may be worth it for the other parties finally realising that they have to serve the electorate and not their own personal interests. I'm sure PR is still a far from perfect system, and there'll ve room for corruption, but it has to be better than what we've got. As I've said so many times before: How you cast your vote should be more important than where you cast your vote. 

[Keith Houchen]

Yep. I live in a constituency where the Labour MP has a majority of nearly 30,000. So if you think I’m a Tory enabler by not voting for his party, that opinion can be inserted into your ringpiece. 
 

And to be honest that’s one of the good things about FPTP. You know who your MP is and can judge that person accordingly. Where my girlfriends parents live have a Tory MP so obviously he’s a cunt, but he is by all accounts a good constituency MP, he holds regular surgeries and updates people who have attended with their issues. So he gets votes not just because he’s a Tory, but for who he is and what he does. If a different candidate stood for the same party, they wouldn’t do as well. 

[Loki]

I think a version of PR would still give you this.

In my town we have a mix of councillors from different parties, but it's only the most local Lib Dem that I ever have contact with.  She's not actually in my ward any more but she's the one who is most approachable and takes an interest, so I'd go to her rather than any other councillors.

If we had a Party List PR system, then rather than 11 individual constituencies in Surrey, there'd be 11 MPs representing Surrey, chosen via Open List PR.  You vote for your favourite candidate and not only does that vote count towards the overall apportioning of candidates to parties, it also propels that candidate up their own party's list.

So in Surrey you'd possibly end up say 4 Tories, 3 Lib Dems, 2 Labour, 1 Green and 1 People's Socialist Worker Left Unity CoOperative Action Party MP if enough of you crusty old Tankies make it to the polling booth without striking or handcuffing yourself to the railings.

You could then treat Dave Spart as your local MP for all intents and purposes.

 

 

[Carbomb]

42 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

The problem isn't the parties, it's the system. If we could get a true feel for the electorate's voting intent from a system like PR, then parties would hopefully start trying to actually court their vote and get things done as opposed to "vote for us because we're not them." First past the post is a horrible system that strangles everybody's choices. If it means we end up with a couple of far right dick heads in parliament then it may be worth it for the other parties finally realising that they have to serve the electorate and not their own personal interests. I'm sure PR is still a far from perfect system, and there'll ve room for corruption, but it has to be better than what we've got. As I've said so many times before: How you cast your vote should be more important than where you cast your vote. 

It's not just general/national elections, though. A problem this big usually has multiple causes, and therefore multiple solutions. One of which is that there needs to be a massive change in our political culture insofar as how we apply to it to our lives in general. 

Politics does not begin and end at the ballot box. We treat it like it's the most important thing, but if we had a culture of organising and acting in line with our values at the local, community level, instead of leaving it up to parties to sort it for us by putting a cross on a piece of paper once every four years, we'd see change a lot quicker. 

We could also stand to change up our attitude towards local politics, as well - if we took council elections seriously, and took an interest in what they actually do, instead of just treating them like a popularity vote for the parliamentary parties, we might get the kind of place we wanted.

[BomberPat]

17 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Politics does not begin and end at the ballot box. We treat it like it's the most important thing, but if we had a culture of organising and acting in line with our values at the local, community level, instead of leaving it up to parties to sort it for us by putting a cross on a piece of paper once every four years, we'd see change a lot quicker. 

I used to subscribe to the Left Book Club, and one month the book in question was the most recent edition of Beyond The Fragments: Feminism and the Making of Socialism by Sheila Rowbotham, Lynne Segal and Hilary Wainwright. Much of it was about finding a space for what now gets called "identity politics" within broader political movements, and lots of stories of old white Marxists seeing feminist organisation as a distraction from focusing on class, and all those old arguments, but the thing that was most depressing reading it was how much it took as read that people would be actively organising and working outside of the party structure at least as much as within it. I don't know whether I blame that collapse on the hyper-individualism and destruction of communities that came of Thatcherism, on The End Of History or on New Labour and its fallout, but whatever the cause, I do think it's at the root of a lot of the issues with our politics - it effectively all takes place in the Westminster bubble until every couple of years they give us a chance to say our piece, and that's that.

That's how you end up with the situation where anyone nominally on the Left is seemingly obligated to vote Labour for the sole purpose of "get the Tories out", even if the Labour Party have nothing to offer. My Dad has said he won't be voting Labour under Starmer, and I know plenty of former members who likely won't either, because the current party offers them no support to the causes that matter to them and no meaningful opposition or, in the case of, for example, trans people, is just as keen to throw them under the bus if they think it will win them a few votes as the Tories are.

And it's the latter point that seems the most obvious right now - the overwhelming feeling coming out of the Tory Party Conference is of a party who wants to see the next general election played out over manufactured and imported culture war issues, to distract as much as possible from their own myriad failings. And while it should be a foregone conclusion that the Tories lose the next election, if they manage to pull that off, I'm not convinced they will. 

[Dead Mike]

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

 

And it's the latter point that seems the most obvious right now - the overwhelming feeling coming out of the Tory Party Conference is of a party who wants to see the next general election played out over manufactured and imported culture war issues, to distract as much as possible from their own myriad failings. And while it should be a foregone conclusion that the Tories lose the next election, if they manage to pull that off, I'm not convinced they will. 

There isn't really the same appetite for the culture war stuff over here as the US where it seems all consuming. It's blatant its all the Tories have left & this is their last remaining strategy, aiming for hearts over minds.

'Culture war' politics only works though if you've  opponents willing to play along. Labour will do well to call them out on it & remind everyone people are dying waiting for ambulances and can't see a dentist. Where I agree it could fall down is if 'left wing' media (online & mainstream) choose to pursue clicks. This type of politics is great for content creators as it never ends, the back & forth is constant.

I maintain that Brits are more inclined to buy into this when times are good, people are feeling it in their pockets too much to care about pronouns (or whatever the topic of the day is).

[westlondonmist]

5 hours ago, SuperBacon said:

I reckon there are easy savings to be made everywhere and thats asset management,  but the old boy councillors won't have it as those savings are seen as prestige buildings.

Have to be careful as you never know, but theoretically if I worked in a team of 5, and theoretically in a wider team of 20, and the theoretically a wider directorate of 200 and the majority worked from home.

Say theoretically we had two dedicated rooms for us for when we go to the flagship building, and theoretically every time we go in there are possibly 20-25 empty desks in each of those rooms, then commercial sense would be to either sell off that space or rent it. 

But they won't,  as like I said, the old boy councillors like the fact that it "represents" us. That's not particularly a government moan, but felt relevant.

What is a government moan is that of next year (April I think) this current government will no longer support LEPs (Local Enterprise Partnerships) from central government, and instead that will be supported from local government.

Way to boost the economy lads!

The country is falling apart and all that short little prick can do is stand there and bang on about "a man is a man and a woman is a woman"

Well, a cunt is a cunt. And you're a cunt.

my council building is 20 floors, 9 are council, 10 let to another organisation and the ground floor is for everyone. Letting it out is already being done. Councils sold all their land 10 to 20 years ago (much of it underprice) and now they need the money and land more than ever. Many councils rent space out to their contractors.

[SuperBacon]

13 minutes ago, westlondonmist said:

my council building is 20 floors, 9 are council, 10 let to another organisation and the ground floor is for everyone. Letting it out is already being done. Councils sold all their land 10 to 20 years ago (much of it underprice) and now they need the money and land more than ever. Many councils rent space out to their contractors.

Our commercial space (conference and meeting rooms etc) are available and brings in revenue, but honestly there is so much potential that is just sitting there being under utilised. Some of it is rented out, but I still think they can maximise it.

I'm sure if I've thought of it, someone else at a much higher pay grade has to, I hope!

Keep the canteen though as they do excellent "McMuffins"

[westlondonmist]

12 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

Our commercial space (conference and meeting rooms etc) are available and brings in revenue, but honestly there is so much potential that is just sitting there being under utilised. Some of it is rented out, but I still think they can maximise it.

I'm sure if I've thought of it, someone else at a much higher pay grade has to, I hope!

Keep the canteen though as they do excellent "McMuffins"

Ideas brought to their attention but doesn't mean they've listened. I brought forward an idea had it laid out and it was going to cost less to run than the current service and bring in much more revenue. higher ups refused it for about 6 months, someone finally said actually it's a no brainer. Her seniors have basically given me loads of hoops to jump through and I'd say set it back 9 months which I'd estimate cost us about 300k, possibly more. In the grand scheme 9f things not much but this won't be the only case.

Sadly many council officers, mostly senior ones don't give a fuck about public money. I had a way of saving 66% on a capital project. My idea wasn't as flashy but great value and still high quality. I was just told it doesn't matter we will get the money anyway. It's there you may as well just spend it. 

 

Sorry if I'm being vague, I just don't want it to be obvious who I work for or what I do.

[Jazzy G]

I see following the cancellation of the northern leg of HS2 they're going to make it up to the people of Manchester by extending the Metrolink to Manchester Airport. Sorry? Have I woken up in 2010 or something? 

[Keith Houchen]

Salting the ground, popping the ball so others can’t play with it. Cunt.