MMA is shite: Fury vs Wilder

[Loki]

10 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

I see what you mean, but previous fights have already shown that he can be hit, no? To be able to hit him often enough, I guess, is the challenge for Wilder

 

No, I mean Wilder can hit him.  You can't really know what it's going to be like to fight someone until you're in there.  For 8 rounds Wilder just couldn't get the range right, couldn't get the footwork and his right hand kept going over Fury's shoulder.  He was taking a big step and telegraphing it, plus he wasn't throwing it straight.

But Wilder's an incredible professional, and he worked it out.  Now he's landed it, he will feel he can do so again.

Edit: what Egg Shen says, yeah.  Once he threw it down the pipe, he connected.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

1 minute ago, Loki said:

If I was Wilder's camp, I'd be thinking that even though Fury can obviously take a punch like almost nobody, you CAN hit him, and if you hit him more often in earlier rounds you could get a finish.

Wilder can't even work the pads, there is no way he improves enough in the next 6 months to catch Fury more often and make him tire out quicker. If Fury stays in decent shape between fights, and that is a big if, then goes into a 12 week training camp for the fight he will be fitter next time and tire out slower. The best chance of Wilder or Joshua for that matter beating Fury was first big fight back. Wilder has blown that advantage for him and AJ both. 

[tiger_rick]

As much as Wilder isn't going to improve, because Fury showed he's a much, much, much, better boxer than him - I don't see Fury getting into much better shape in the next few months either. He is what he is.

FWIW, I see a rematch going almost the same way with Fury outboxing Wilder who has some joy towards the end and then a decent set of judges recognise who really won the fight.

Loki's right though, it was a tremendous fight and a rematch will be massively anticipated. The result was a swizz but it does create a great scenario.

[David]

32 minutes ago, Loki said:

My take on that is the opposite.  It took Wilder 9 rounds to work out how to get inside Fury's crazy defence and hit that right hand straight rather than round the corner.  He proved that by doing it again in the 12th.  

If I was Wilder's camp, I'd be thinking that even though Fury can obviously take a punch like almost nobody, you CAN hit him, and if you hit him more often in earlier rounds you could get a finish.  You could hear after the fight Wilder was already thinking about the tactics for the next time.

The whole fight was fantastic, proper championship boxing, and I can't wait for a rematch.  Personally I hope they do that first, and then the winner fights Joshua.  Then all things being equal you can have a Joshua/Fury match on the other side of that.

Personally, I don't think it was really a case of Wilder working anything out. Even in the instances between rounds where we got to see and hear his corner, his coach had fuck all to say. 

I think he caught Fury more later on due to the fact that Fury has been away for so long, plus he kind of fucked up his camp by heading to Big Bear then changing his mind and moving a few weeks out.

I pretty much guarantee that if they fight again (which I doubt very much will happen), Wilder's tactics will be the exact same. He's spent the last 40 fights relying on his power to put away opponents, and this time he couldn't do it, and when he couldn't do it he cut a forlorn figure between rounds. 

He's spent years beating up cans in the US, and the first time he came up against someone of legit world class level he was found wanting.

25 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Wilder insisiting on looping the right hand was his problem, it just wasnt landing. Everytime he did it Fury ducked over and the punch went over the top. The Showtime commentary were getting frustrated at his performance because they were saying a straight right down the pipe was there all night and its a punch he throws well. Post-fight there lots of talk about him completely abandoning the gameplan too, whether or not hes capable to sticking to a gameplan remains be seen, hes probably got this far simply by landing that right hand and not needing much else.

Yeah, but those were the same commentators who were frustrated by Klitschko not being able to hit Fury either. It's not as simple as the punch being there, Fury boxes in such a manner as to set you up to throw it only for him to counter. That straight right down the pipe was there because Fury was offering it, hoping he'd take it and get countered. The few times Wilder did throw right down the centre he got cracked by a two punch combination. It almost cost him in the last round after Fury had been down. Wilder obviously assumed Fury was dazed and maybe out of it and went for the straight shot down the middle only to get countered, after which he grabbed on. I honestly think a fitter, more clear-headed Fury would have put him down at that point.

23 minutes ago, Loki said:

 

No, I mean Wilder can hit him.  You can't really know what it's going to be like to fight someone until you're in there.  For 8 rounds Wilder just couldn't get the range right, couldn't get the footwork and his right hand kept going over Fury's shoulder.  He was taking a big step and telegraphing it, plus he wasn't throwing it straight.

But Wilder's an incredible professional, and he worked it out.  Now he's landed it, he will feel he can do so again.

Edit: what Egg Shen says, yeah.  Once he threw it down the pipe, he connected.

Wilders a solid athlete, but he's not bringing much else beyond big power to the table. 

Hopefully he does think he can win in a rematch, because a Tyson Fury with those 12 rounds under his belt, a proper camp and more sharpness will be a different beast. Wilder won't be changing much up, he's in his 30's and has fought the same way all his career.

16 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

As much as Wilder isn't going to improve, because Fury showed he's a much, much, much, better boxer than him - I don't see Fury getting into much better shape in the next few months either. He is what he is.

FWIW, I see a rematch going almost the same way with Fury outboxing Wilder who has some joy towards the end and then a decent set of judges recognise who really won the fight.

Loki's right though, it was a tremendous fight and a rematch will be massively anticipated. The result was a swizz but it does create a great scenario.

If anything Fury will have less rust on him, and he may even have a proper camp. That Big Bear debacle was just fucking stupid.

[Egg Shen]

I think the rematch would be an absolute carbon copy of this one, Fury wins it if Wilder doesn't land the KO. Thats the only fight these two guys can have.

[wandshogun09]

Paulie Malignaggi going off a bit about the judging;

 

[ColinBollocks]

IDK, with boxing at the highest level, there are usually always some adjustments in the rematch after fighters have touched each other and know the score. Whether either man can implement them, we'll see. I think Wilder can win if, as Paulie repeatedly said during the broadcast, he can be a lot sneakier with his right hand. Tyson admitted he never saw the right that initially hurt him in the 12th; more of that is what he needs to work on - of course, easier typed than done. Whether or not Wilder can make that leap is a big question too, because being a big looping telegraphing bugger (as Ebb mentioned) isn't going to get it done. It's what he does, for the most part.

Also, Floyd Snr wasn't a fan of the decision.

 

[PowerButchi]

5 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

I think the rematch would be an absolute carbon copy of this one, Fury wins it if Wilder doesn't land the KO. Thats the only fight these two guys can have.

What rematch? There's more chance of me getting bummed by Demis Roussos than Wilder trying Fury again.

[David]

12 hours ago, ColinBollocks said:

IDK, with boxing at the highest level, there are usually always some adjustments in the rematch after fighters have touched each other and know the score. Whether either man can implement them, we'll see. I think Wilder can win if, as Paulie repeatedly said during the broadcast, he can be a lot sneakier with his right hand. Tyson admitted he never saw the right that initially hurt him in the 12th; more of that is what he needs to work on - of course, easier typed than done. Whether or not Wilder can make that leap is a big question too, because being a big looping telegraphing bugger (as Ebb mentioned) isn't going to get it done. It's what he does, for the most part.

Honestly, I've long believed that as much as people say Joshua has been protected to a certain extent, Wilder has been protected to an even greater degree. The US heavyweight scene is a total joke at the moment, that's just a fact.

How would Wilder do against any of the legit top heavyweights? A Joseph Parker? A Povetkin? A Dillian Whyte? Could he beat those guys? Possibly, but I'll tell you what, I wouldn't be surprised if Dillian Whyte could beat Wilder, would you? I simply don't think he's fought a decent enough level of fighter for his big-time KO record to be taken all that seriously.

Most boxers who have one tool in their arsenal don't tend to fare well when they face legit top fighters. If that one tool doesn't work, then they're fucked. 

He dropped Fury, but the truth is that Fury has been dropped before. He's known for bouncing back (which he did at the weekend), but we're not talking about Wilder putting down a guy who's notoriously hard to put down. 

He's been caught (put in trouble but not dropped) by Nicolai Firtha, who came in on two weeks notice, he got dropped and wobbled by Neven Pajkic, he was dropped by a small heavyweight in Steve Cunningham as well. Fury isn't hard to catch if he's drifting mentally.

The thing for me is that I don't see Wilder landing a more clean shot than he did in the 12th, and a tired Fury didn't just get up, but he did a little jog and then proceeded to come roaring back and outbox Wilder for the remainder of the round.

I may be off-point here, but I don't think Wilder's big time power is all it's cracked up to be. I said before the fight that most of his previous wins have come from multiple knock downs. The chumps he's fought got back up from his big shots, it's just that they were't good enough to recover and come back.

In any other country Fury walks away with the unanimous win in that fight and we're all talking about a rematch as a bit of a foregone conclusion. 

[ColinBollocks]

That's where the rematch comes in, I guess. We'll see if Wilder is good enough to get it done and make some much needed changes. If he doesn't then a sharper Fury is probably just going to outbox him again for the majority, with Wilder hoping he can figure something out to sneak in a 10/8. Wilder is 100% the one that needs to work on some adjustments if he wants to win a fair right.

Again, Lennox Lewis reckons a more punch conditioned Fury is probably taking at least one of those knockdown blows better.

Be funny if they duck Fury after all their mouthing off about AJ, though. I think Warren knows the score, which is why he's written to the WBC quick sharp.

Also, this "slow count" narrative Wilder's fans and now Wilder is pushing is hilarious. Anyone coming out with that shite is a proper salty bollock.

[Egg Shen]

2 hours ago, ColinBollocks said:

 

Also, this "slow count" narrative Wilder's fans and now Wilder is pushing is hilarious. Anyone coming out with that shite is a proper salty bollock.

the one thing about the knockdown that Fury was lucky with was the ref not immediately waving it off, obviously the ref the best and a completely different view but it looked like he was out cold, the referee played a bit of a blinder because think most would have just waved if off as soon as he hit the deck, or at least 3-4 seconds into the count.

[Keith Houchen]

I was watching it on a stream so the quality may not have been the best, but I thought the look on Furys face when he was on the deck was more of a "Fuck, he caught me" than a "Where am I" and the ref could see that straight away.  **INCOMING OLD MAN REFERENCE**  It reminded me of Gene Tunney looking at the ref in the battle of the long count.

[Egg Shen]

Yeh the ref and Fury definitely seemed to have eye contact pretty much straight away. Brilliant piece of refereeing.

[ColinBollocks]

The ref was a pro the whole fight. It's proper disgraceful Wilder is trying to turn the ref into a villain to create a narrative where Wilder is the one that got cheated, not the man that out classed him for most of the fight. Soured me on Wilder quite a bit, this. Mainly because this is no. 1 bullshit.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah it’s shitty of Wilder. I know he’s going to put a spin on it but he’s very, very lucky that he left with a draw and the belt. He’s already been gifted that by the paid off judges. Leave the ref be. He’s the only official involved in this whole thing who did a spot on job. 

It does remind me of when Don King tried to rob Buster Douglas of his moment after he scored the upset on Tyson. Claiming the whole long count shite and trying to get the result overturned. The fact Buster knocked the absolute fuck out of Tyson rendered King’s bellyaching useless though and he dropped it. I wonder if Tyson would’ve survived to the final bell if we’d have seen a similarly fishy decision? Probably.