MMA is shite: Fury vs Wilder

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

2 hours ago, David said:

Yeah, like a bit of a sadsack I watched it back again, and gave Wilder every round where I thought he could possibly have done enough to sneak it and I still had Fury by three.

I think you are probably about right David. Looking at the scorecards I would say Robert Tapper, adding up aside has it about right. The 1st round is debatable, you can make a case for either as so little landed either way. He scored it for Wilder, I'd probably score it for Fury. Apart from that I think he is spot on.

[Carbomb]

One of the intriguing things about this result is that it potentially introduces a strong x-factor into the equation as regards a Wilder/Joshua match, or even Wilder/Fury 2: now that Wilder's experienced doubt as regards his biggest weapon and been handed his first non-win, it could change the nature of his approach to training and fighting. Maybe not so much as a first loss might have done, but seeing Fury get up from a killing shot like his must have shaken his confidence a bit.

Of course, it may change nothing. But it's always interesting to see how a fighter reacts to a first defeat, or, in this case, a first failure - obviously, Wilder's had a non-KO win before, but this time he's basically been shown that, against the best opponent he's fought to date, his Sunday punch isn't quite the invincible weapon he thought it was.

[David]

1 minute ago, Carbomb said:

One of the intriguing things about this result is that it potentially introduces a strong x-factor into the equation as regards a Wilder/Joshua match, or even Wilder/Fury 2: now that Wilder's experienced doubt as regards his biggest weapon and been handed his first non-win, it could change the nature of his approach to training and fighting. Maybe not so much as a first loss might have done, but seeing Fury get up from a killing shot like his must have shaken his confidence a bit.

Of course, it may change nothing. But it's always interesting to see how a fighter reacts to a first defeat, or, in this case, a first failure - obviously, Wilder's had a non-KO win before, but this time he's basically been shown that, against the best opponent he's fought to date, his Sunday punch isn't quite the invincible weapon he thought it was.

I think he'll believe that Fury is the exception (which is probably true), and that if he'd caught anyone else with that shot, including Joshua, it would have been game over.

I have no idea if that's true, maybe Joshua could get back up as well, but I think Wilder will believe Fury is the exception, and will probably not be looking to rematch him again any time soon because of that. 

Fury is the guy that no one at the top of the division will want to fight, which is probably why Eddie Hearn actually said that even if Fury won he'd still want the Wilder match for Joshua instead, which is mental.

[ColinBollocks]

Fury is just double tough. If you're Wilder you'll know, at the very least, that if you make a solid connection you're getting a 10/8 out of it. I'm sure Wilder and his team will look at it and see that, while they couldn't put him away, they still managed to knock Fury on his arse twice - so he can be got at. For them, there is some encouragement there for the rematch.

Although, what I'd find truly discouraging is whenever Wilder knocked Fury down, Fury got back up and took over the fight. Not only couldn't you put him away, but you made the bugger mad.

[Egg Shen]

On the subject of scoring i could just about stretch it to the 113-113 score if you were giving Wilder some of those early rounds where not a great deal was happening, you'd have to be pretty generous about it though and basically score the wild aggression Wilder showed in sperts. There's very few people online claiming anything other than a robbery though, ive seen very few people even go as far to say a draw was fair. That said, most people seem to be more caught up in how dramatic it was rather than the scoring and just wanna see it again.

Fury exceeded my expectation. It played out how i thought it could if Fury showed any form like he did against Klitschko, i just didnt think he had another performance like that in him, i was wrong.

Deontay Wilder's punch power is an insane X-factor though. He's now been behind in several fights and looked a little hopeless but he always manages to find the shot, crazy.

[David]

1 hour ago, ColinBollocks said:

Fury is just double tough. If you're Wilder you'll know, at the very least, that if you make a solid connection you're getting a 10/8 out of it. I'm sure Wilder and his team will look at it and see that, while they couldn't put him away, they still managed to knock Fury on his arse twice - so he can be got at. For them, there is some encouragement there for the rematch.

Although, what I'd find truly discouraging is whenever Wilder knocked Fury down, Fury got back up and took over the fight. Not only couldn't you put him away, but you made the bugger mad.

The thing is, you have to believe that Fury can only really get sharper with another few fights, and with more ring time he'll be far better placed to apply the kind of pressure he did after those two knock downs.

Not only did he get up from that 2nd knock down, but less than 30 seconds later he was mugging Wilder off again, standing with his hands behind his back.

Also, as far as a rematch goes, Wilder really can't change anything he tried in the first fight. He's one dimensional at best, while you can bet that Fury will be watching the tape and picking holes in Wilder's game that he maybe didn't see before the fight. He's an intelligent boxer, and he'd likely put that to use, which is why I'd virtually put my life savings on Wilder's next fight being against someone not called Fury.

[ColinBollocks]

Oh, I agree, David. Just if you're Wilder and his camp looking for positives about getting out boxed for at least 10 rounds, then they'll probably point to the fact he can still rock Fury.

Paulie Malinaggiaogiaja did a good job pointing out how slick Fury was in comparison to Wilder (I mean, from a technical POV, because you only need one decent eye to see the difference). Again, that's a Fury that's not as sharp as he probably could be next year. Old Paulie was proper irate at the decision because he seen a man get absolutely bamboozled for the majority of the fight - I found myself agreeing with his scoring, which was 10/8 rounds and the 1st for Wilder.

[David]

That's something that's always irked me about boxing as well, the whole 10-8 round for a knockdown.

I mean, if you put a guy down and he gets up only to barely survive the round then fair enough, 10-8 all day. But, if the guy gets up and proceeds to come back at you stronger than he was before getting clipped then that should be a 10-9 in my opinion. 

[wandshogun09]

That’s the thing, even the rounds where Fury was knocked down, besides the actual knockdowns Fury was boxing him up for the bulk of those two rounds as well. Of course, you have to give Wilder those rounds regardless but to me it was literally just those two knockdowns that were the only times Fury was losing in the whole fight. You could maybe at a push give Wilder one more round but to me if you took away those knockdowns it’s a complete 12-0 shutout. Obviously those knockdowns were the big dramatic moments in the fight so they’ll get a lot of the attention. But it really is bollocks that Fury’s not sitting there with that big green belt now. I’ve watched the fight 3 times now and the only explanation for the draw is corruption. You can’t get a fight this clear cut that wrong any other way. 

[Egg Shen]

1 hour ago, David said:

That's something that's always irked me about boxing as well, the whole 10-8 round for a knockdown.

I mean, if you put a guy down and he gets up only to barely survive the round then fair enough, 10-8 all day. But, if the guy gets up and proceeds to come back at you stronger than he was before getting clipped then that should be a 10-9 in my opinion. 

what is the actual rules for that? i automatically list as a 10-8 but i dont know if thats right or not? 

 

[wandshogun09]

Isn’t it just that a knockdown = an automatic 10-8, regardless of what went on the rest of the round? And then more knockdowns in the same round mean more points come off. Like Pacquiao vs Marquez 1 all those years ago. Pacquiao knocked him down 3 times in the opening round so he took the round 10-6. Still can’t believe Marquez managed to claw back a draw from that after that total shitter of a first round. 

[Egg Shen]

thats how ive always assumed it to be, dont know if that neccesarily how its meant to be scored though.

[Loki]

5 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Wilder's experienced doubt as regards his biggest weapon

My take on that is the opposite.  It took Wilder 9 rounds to work out how to get inside Fury's crazy defence and hit that right hand straight rather than round the corner.  He proved that by doing it again in the 12th.  

If I was Wilder's camp, I'd be thinking that even though Fury can obviously take a punch like almost nobody, you CAN hit him, and if you hit him more often in earlier rounds you could get a finish.  You could hear after the fight Wilder was already thinking about the tactics for the next time.

The whole fight was fantastic, proper championship boxing, and I can't wait for a rematch.  Personally I hope they do that first, and then the winner fights Joshua.  Then all things being equal you can have a Joshua/Fury match on the other side of that.

[Carbomb]

Just now, Loki said:

My take on that is the opposite.  It took Wilder 9 rounds to work out how to get inside Fury's crazy defence and hit that right hand straight rather than round the corner.  He proved that by doing it again in the 12th.

If I was Wilder's camp, I'd be thinking that even though Fury can obviously take a punch like almost nobody, you CAN hit him, and if you hit him more often in earlier rounds you could get a finish.

The whole fight was fantastic, proper championship boxing, and I can't wait for a rematch.  Personally I hope they do that first, and then the winner fights Joshua.  Then all things being equal you can have a Joshua/Fury match on the other side of that.

I see what you mean, but previous fights have already shown that he can be hit, no? To be able to hit him often enough, I guess, is the challenge for Wilder

[Egg Shen]

Wilder insisiting on looping the right hand was his problem, it just wasnt landing. Everytime he did it Fury ducked over and the punch went over the top. The Showtime commentary were getting frustrated at his performance because they were saying a straight right down the pipe was there all night and its a punch he throws well. Post-fight there lots of talk about him completely abandoning the gameplan too, whether or not hes capable to sticking to a gameplan remains be seen, hes probably got this far simply by landing that right hand and not needing much else.