Paid Members BomberPat Posted October 18, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 10 minutes ago, David said: Was he found guilty of that though? I'm asking because this is all genuinely new to me today, I'd never really heard of Elgin before seeing this chat in the Umaga thread. I mean, how do we define "found guilty"? It's not a legal issue, it's not gone to court. But there are messages sent to him about his student assaulting someone, and him acknowledging those messages, that date from long before he stopped booking said student. Elgin publicly expressed support for the victim, while privately calling her a "liar and a whore". Other messages from both Elgin and Orleans (the accused assaulter) both acknowledge that the assault did happen.  If we're talking on purely legal terms, he has no "right" to these bookings he's allegedly missing. He's got no leg to stand on if his argument is "I can't phone up a promoter and ask for a booking when I see a show's on". Because there's nothing stopping him from doing that, any more than there's anything stopping the promoter from saying "no". I've called up promoters and asked to get booked, and got turned down. That's not a loss of earnings, that's a gig I didn't get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNQ Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Over the same schedule - again, based on Cagematch - Zack Sabre Jr has worked fewer dates in total, no dates in Mexico, and none in the US. But no one's arguing that Zack has been "blacklisted" in the US - they just recognise that's not where his schedule is taking him right now. He was PUBLICLY blacklisted by those promotions I mentioned, so YES he was blacklisted. Only difference is that he got an extra week in CMLL for his annual Mexico trip this year and IWA-MS covering the rest as fewer promotions are wanting to book him. Nobody is saying he's struggling, but his situation in the US was drastically changed because of those not-so-kind people on Twitter as a result of the games that lady were playing.  36 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Nah I can understand "Teletubbies Generation", it means someone who grew up watching Teletubbies, so it covers anyone who was a child between 1997 and now.  So that means a parent and child could feasibly both be from the Teletubbies Generation.  It makes perfect sense! I was too old for Teletubbies when it started and too young to be a parent, so I'm a Teletub-tweener, I guess. No, but I remember when it first started airing and all the child "experts" claiming how little stimulating the show was for children. And considering the attitude now is this "harmonious or nothing" arrogance. Surly it can't be a co-incident, can it? đ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted October 18, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said: Again, not the point. Does not matter if he is working for the biggest company in the world every night, his ability to choose where he works has been affected and that's the point. He should be allowed, when he is not in Japan, to go 'There's a show a couple of hours away. I'll ring the promoter and see if I can get booked. It's a bit of money and I'll be able to sell some merch and drive home and see my family after the gig' or whatever, but he can't because of what has happened. It's about being able to choose - and he can't. Not giving my opinion on the topic, but purely on a legal basis, that is irrelevant to a loss of earnings suit. He's earning close to his maximum potential earnings by working for the two biggest companies in the world. The defamation suit might have more success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted October 18, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, PUNQ said: Nobody is saying he's struggling Except Michael Elgin, who is literally making this argument, in a lawsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Accident Prone Posted October 18, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said: He isn't. Even if what is alleged to have happened did it is not a crime so he can't be found guilty of anything.  Hear that lads? It's not a crime, therefore it's okay. Pick up a history book and really think about what you just said. Jesus Christ.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I mean, how do we define "found guilty"? It's not a legal issue, it's not gone to court. But there are messages sent to him about his student assaulting someone, and him acknowledging those messages, that date from long before he stopped booking said student. Elgin publicly expressed support for the victim, while privately calling her a "liar and a whore". Other messages from both Elgin and Orleans (the accused assaulter) both acknowledge that the assault did happen. I'm not meaning in a legal sense, I'm meaning in a "did it happen, and did he cover it up" sense. 9 minutes ago, BomberPat said: If we're talking on purely legal terms, he has no "right" to these bookings he's allegedly missing. He's got no leg to stand on if his argument is "I can't phone up a promoter and ask for a booking when I see a show's on". Because there's nothing stopping him from doing that, any more than there's anything stopping the promoter from saying "no". I've called up promoters and asked to get booked, and got turned down. That's not a loss of earnings, that's a gig I didn't get. You're smart enough to know what he means though Pat, come on. If he's been booked regularly for company X, and then promoter of company X tells him "I can't book you chief, that girl you had a run-in with is causing me grief, making threats and suchlike on social media and generally affecting the viability of my show" then he has a point. He won't win any actual loss of earnings in court, but there's a very good chance he can get some form of cease & desist or whatever against her, stopping her from slandering him, which is probably the main aim. Aim high, then settle for her being told to pipe down is probably the tactic. However, if said promoters say "Well fella, I'm not hiring you for shows anymore because you're a cunt who only acknowledged a sexual assault when you were forced to" then it would be a different story, wouldn't it? Chances are though, seeing as the girl didn't take it to court or wasn't successful with that route, she'll be told to either prove that he broke the law or shut the fuck up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, PUNQ said: I was too old for Teletubbies when it started and too young to be a parent, so I'm a Teletub-tweener, I guess. The show is still on, my point was dismissing the idea of a "Teletubbies Generation" as a parent and child could have watched the same show while the same age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 1 minute ago, BomberPat said: Other messages from both Elgin and Orleans (the accused assaulter) both acknowledge that the assault did happen.  No they don't - they acknowledge that Orleans was there and made a pass at her. In the statements released for trial it notes that he tried to kiss her and she pushed him away - and in the section where she is allowed to give her comments on the situation she does not deny that this is what happened. Now whether anyone thinks trying to kiss someone is or isnt sexual assault, to put that in context - she initially claimed Orleans raped her. Elgin repeatedly told her to go the police and that he would support her. It was only after she started accusing him of things that he cut off all communication with her.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Accident Prone said: Hear that lads? It's not a crime, therefore it's okay. Pick up a history book and really think about what you just said. Jesus Christ.  What's okay? What is it that he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Just now, Snitsky's back acne said: What's okay? What is it that he did? He didn't double post, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNQ Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: The show is still on, my point was dismissing the idea of a "Teletubbies Generation" as a parent and child could have watched the same show while the same age. Thanks for the warning. I'll make sure to protect my 3 year old from that brain-butcher of a show đ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 47 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: I thought it was gonna be a tin foil hat club who think the sun is really the head of a giant baby. I could more easily believe the head of The Sun is a giant baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Dem Wanz Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Introducing Teletubbies into this discussion is the most wacky twist in wrestling since Bray Wyattâs hologram turned up at Hell in a Cell 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannibal Man Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 7 hours ago, BomberPat said: Is there any evidence that Elgin's career has suffered in the US, Canada or Europe, though? the stress caused all his hair to fall out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Except Michael Elgin, who is literally making this argument, in a lawsuit. No he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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