Snitsky's back acne Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, mim731 said: with no intention to spotlight the homegrown talent. You clearly DID fast forward the show if you think they are not spotlighting the homegrown talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted February 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Snitsky's back acne said: You clearly DID fast forward the show if you think they are not spotlighting the homegrown talent. I'm not sure how much having Jack Swagger vs John Morrison in the main event, on a show also featuring Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio Jr, Carlito and Chris Masters is putting a spotlight on homegrown talent. The point I was making was I would prefer a transition towards less imports in order to push more UK talent in prominent slots, which Zack Gibson aside, I didn't feel was the case just yet. Perhaps that is the long-term plan, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 5 hours ago, mim731 said: I'm not sure how much having Jack Swagger vs John Morrison in the main event, on a show also featuring Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio Jr, Carlito and Chris Masters is putting a spotlight on homegrown talent. The point I was making was I would prefer a transition towards less imports in order to push more UK talent in prominent slots, which Zack Gibson aside, I didn't feel was the case just yet. Perhaps that is the long-term plan, who knows. It's been TWO WEEKS! Give them a chance. If we are still having this conversation a month or two down the line then I would agree with you. Swagger has interacted with Eddie Ryan the past two weeks, RVD worked with Zack Gibson, Carlito & Masters have worked Max Money and Mastiff and Grizzly, Misterio has worked Gibson and Haskins... how much more spotlight would you like names that are largely, if not completely, unknown name to the casual audience to have after 2 weeks of TV? We are not talking about a Progress or a Fight:Pro that cater to the die-hard fans -5* are a TV company looking to draw Joe Bloggs sat at home. The ex-WWE guys and the big arenas are there to appease the TV network and draw in the kids/casuals who might be familiar with a Mysterio or RVD - without them, no TV deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted February 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2018 5 hours ago, mim731 said: I'm not sure how much having Jack Swagger vs John Morrison in the main event, on a show also featuring Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio Jr, Carlito and Chris Masters is putting a spotlight on homegrown talent. The point I was making was I would prefer a transition towards less imports in order to push more UK talent in prominent slots, which Zack Gibson aside, I didn't feel was the case just yet. Perhaps that is the long-term plan, who knows. The bit in bold, if you actually read rather than immediately going on the defensive, you'll see I'm not actually entirely disagreeing with you. I think there is definitely room to improve and they could do with not booking import vs import main events, was my point, but that might come with time, which is why I used the word "transition". The production is still not great, and it needs work. I"m not writing it off immediately, but they have a lot of work to do if they want to prevent this being a total failure and to keep their TV deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 OTT have booked Tomohiro Ishii v Jeff Cobb and Keith Lee v Minoru Suzuki as main events for their next show. Honestly these companies booking import v import as their main events are killing British wrestling, dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted February 13, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2018 Firstly, OTT are in Ireland, which is categorically not Britain. A very separate country. In addition that's hardly the same thing, given OTT don't have a major TV deal, and it has nothing to do the conversation about 5*. I never once said imports were killing British wrestling, or were even detrimental, simply that I'd prefer there to be more British performers in prominent roles in this one instance. I do understand the reasoning for 5* using imports and I was simply expressing that I hope they use them as a means to transition relatively quickly to British wrestlers also on top of the card rather than import vs import matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Why shouldn’t Swagger v Morrison be the main event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philjax Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 I assumed putting the belt on Hager was to transition out Morrison (who'll soon be off to film Lucha Underground - I think), as well as surely cut the costs as Jake should be cheaper. I can't see Rey being around after week 8 either. While this happens Zack is obviously being positioned as a future long reigning champion. I'm sure they announced Eddie Ryan as being from Plymouth so that title match writes itself in a few weeks too if they wanted to go that way, especially as Hager and Ryan have been having words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TildeGuy~! Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 16 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said: OTT have booked Tomohiro Ishii v Jeff Cobb and Keith Lee v Minoru Suzuki as main events for their next show. Honestly these companies booking import v import as their main events are killing British wrestling, dammit! To be fair, they sound like cracking matches. I’d rather watch those two matches then Swagger Vs Morrison... The Main Event of WWE Main Event from 2007. Theres booking imports and then there’s booking ex WWE guys, that’s the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 18 hours ago, Snitsky's back acne said: It's been TWO WEEKS! Give them a chance. If we are still having this conversation a month or two down the line then I would agree with you. Yes, it's been two weeks, but first impressions count for everything. If I watch an episode of a TV show and think it's terrible, I'm not going to keep tuning in every week on the off-chance it gets better, and wrestling's no different. Not to mention that it's not just been two weeks - it's been over a year of them having tried this shit before with their last arena tour, having had months of people predicting everything they would do wrong, and them doing every last bit of it. Quote Swagger has interacted with Eddie Ryan the past two weeks, RVD worked with Zack Gibson, Carlito & Masters have worked Max Money and Mastiff and Grizzly, Misterio has worked Gibson and Haskins... how much more spotlight would you like names that are largely, if not completely, unknown name to the casual audience to have after 2 weeks of TV? Yes, Swagger worked Eddie Ryan - and beat him. Yes, Rey Mysterio worked with Haskins and Gibson - and both went to DQ fuck finishes to protect Rey. Grizzly & Mastiff worked Carlito & Masters, and lost. RVD fought Gibson, another DQ. It's not enough to say that they're giving a spotlight to UK guys by having them work with the imports, when the imports are going over, and being shown as the featured attraction in every single instance. The UK talent aren't presented as being on the same level as the US names, to the point that the one guy on the show making the argument that the UK talent should be booked on the same level as the imports is a babyface. What benefit is there in Grizzly & Mastiff jobbing, if they're genuinely looking to build up UK talent? To protect the bulletproof drawing power of Carlito? UK talent aren't booked on these shows because 5 Star Wrestling want to give a platform for UK talent to show what they can do, they're booked on these shows because it's a vanity project for those behind 5 Star to play at being Vince McMahon and book all their favourite wrestlers, and they need a few more bodies to make up the numbers. Quote We are not talking about a Progress or a Fight:Pro that cater to the die-hard fans -5* are a TV company looking to draw Joe Bloggs sat at home. Which would be a good argument if it weren't for the fact that Progress, without Rey Mysterio, and without a TV deal, consistently outdraw Five Star Wrestling. Is it really a "casuals vs. die-hards" argument when the promotion in that equation that's supposed to be the niche, die-hard exclusive promotion for the nerds and smarks can draw more than double what the TV product can? The "it needs to appeal to a mass audience" argument doesn't hold any weight, because it categorically doesn't appeal to that audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffbag Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 anyone going to Sheffield this week? i live 5 min away but gen not interested enough in the product to pay the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 I'm in a similar boat - I'm in Plymouth next week, the same day they're running Plymouth Pavilions, but I really don't want to (and can't afford to) spend £35 on a ticket to one of their shows. I don't know if they're in the habit of papering people on the night, though, so I might just rock up and chance it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffbag Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 thats what im thinking, i drive past on way home so might just pop in and see what i can blag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshC Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I don't want to play devil's advocate, but... what obligation does 5 Star Wrestling have to the 'UK scene'? Progress will still draw its fans, ICW will still draw its fans, the town hall shows will still draw their fans... I don't see who or what it hurts. None of it that I've seen has been garbage. So what's the problem? That it should be Progress or whoever instead? I'm sure they're quite happy with their business model, having just been able to book the Ally Pally and Wembley Arena. Also, everyone on those shows knows what they signed up for. They're all there to get on the telly and fair play to them for it. But I don't get the "oh, these guys are being misused!", etc. They're all there to get on the telly. And they're on the telly, doing their stuff. What's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted February 14, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted February 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, AshC said: I don't want to play devil's advocate, but... what obligation does 5 Star Wrestling have to the 'UK scene'? Progress will still draw its fans, ICW will still draw its fans, the town hall shows will still draw their fans... I don't see who or what it hurts. None of it that I've seen has been garbage. So what's the problem? That it should be Progress or whoever instead? I'm sure they're quite happy with their business model, having just been able to book the Ally Pally and Wembley Arena. Also, everyone on those shows knows what they signed up for. They're all there to get on the telly and fair play to them for it. But I don't get the "oh, these guys are being misused!", etc. They're all there to get on the telly. And they're on the telly, doing their stuff. What's the problem? Way I see it, that's the wrong question to ask. It's like asking what obligation Virgin Media has to telecommunications, or Microsoft has to computing. It's not about obligations, it's about what's good business and what draws fans. This isn't irrelevant in the current discussion - we've got fans for whom wrestling fandom is more than just going to shows, and we've got promoters on whom it has a direct influence. People on here talking about the talent being misused: that's the fans expressing their critical opinion, and therefore their reasons for why they won't go to the shows, or watch the TV programmes. Nobody here is calling for a boycott. They're simply criticising the product and saying: "Looks shit to me, there are plenty of better promotions that I'd rather see." And if they continue commenting on it, that's their prerogative on a wrestling forum. They don't like the direction of the product, they don't like to see talent they're fans of being (as they see it) squandered by being made to play second-fiddle to imports in an era when British wrestlers are doing better than they ever have, and they don't want to support a product which, in their opinion, is potentially detrimental to the wrestling scene and thus potentially impacts their fandom negatively. No-one's saying either that they have to be Progress; they're saying that this specifically is a business model which has done badly before, and appears to be making all the same mistakes as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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