textonly Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Personally I hate that argument. It runs on this logic that the way to create new fans is to show them something current fans don't like. It doesn't make sense. For me the answer is to listen to what the current fans want and try to build a better show around it. Â But you're going on the assumption that "the current fans" = the people who cheer the internet darlings and boo Cena. And if that was really the measure of the current fanbase, Cena wouldn't be selling more tickets and t-shirts than those darlings. The fans who perpetually decide to buck against Vince and champion whichever workrate guy is being "buried" at any given moment are always going to be there and always going to complain about something or other. Vinnie Mac's getting their money either way. Â That's a fair argument, but surely you're not saying Roman Reigns right now is more of a draw/moneymaker than Daniel Bryan is? When you're talking about Cena it's a different story: the guy's in the position because he deserves to be. He's the biggest part of the show, he's regularly in great matches and he makes a ton of money. Right now Daniel Bryan has proven he's capable of doing two of those three things regularly and Roman Reigns as a singles competitor hasn't done any of it. Why push the guy who's so much further away from the goal? Obviously they have a lot of faith in his potential, but for me it seems too early. I would go with the guy who's ticking more boxes right now and do my damndest to see if I can get him over the line. Â And, to be clear, I'm not one of those fans who just wants American Dragon(!) to be the man. Nor do I have any real time for Dolph Ziggler or Dean Ambrose etc. Truly, for me right now the biggest stars in the company are Brock Lesnar, John Cena, Daniel Bryan. I'd rather the WM main event feature any configuration of those guys, even though we've seen Lesnar/Cena a bunch. And, to be honest, although this may feed into the "workrate guyz!" idea, I'd even put Seth Rollins ahead of Reigns in that list right now. He has been consistently solid in everything he's done in a primary spot for a while now. Reigns, meanwhile, to me, hasn't proven himself to be anything other than an idea of what he could be. For all he's done since The Shield broke up, he may as well be Ryback when he's on one of his upswings. Â Anyway... it's no big deal. I hope Reigns proves me wrong. It's just that forcing a "star" is a risky move. Sometimes you get someone like Lesnar who grows into the role beautifully, other times it doesn't work out so well. Choosing the Road to Wrestlemania as the place to find out is a high stakes game I wouldn't have played if I was them. Let Bryan win and have Reigns be the guy to challenge him later makes more sense to me. Â Maybe they see Bryan as the small guy in his mid-30s with a bad neck and his days of being pushed are over. Benoit and Mysterio never got the second run and Vince had to be convinced to put the belts on them (the old story goes Vince had the date Rey was losing the belt marked down and kept reminding creative). You have to wonder if he'll ever get the belt back now. Â If it's injury related I think that's completely fine. Naturally some better booking would have helped, but fair enough. If it's purely ideological though - that Bryan just isn't the guy Vince envisions as the star - or even to do with age, I'd say it's a shame, especially considering Bryan never actually got his run. It seems a waste to have a guy who's more over with the crowd than anyone has been in years and not try harder to translate that to money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MungoChutney Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm with Ian in so far as I think Bryan's big 'run' is over and he won't ever be pushed to that level again. He'll maintain an upper midcard spot and dip in and out of the top level matches when needed, pretty much the way they used Mysterio. Â Still, even if the injury is the reason for not pushing him it doesn't excuse of they've booked him. Or how they've booked Reigns for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankCastle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 If I can play Devil's Advocate here - if Bryan is now 34 and with a bad neck, BUT is still drawing massive pops, maybe now is the time to give him his run before he's permanently knackered? They've got a guy they could make short term money from and then play a patient build up with Reigns rather than rush him into a main event spot now.  Indulge me for a minute - the title match plays out as it did, Bryan comes in at number 1, plays the Flair role and keeps going through the match, then Reigns comes in halfway through, pastes Big Show and Kane, but as Bryan and Reigns prepare to go, Rusev comes in, flattens Bryan, then goes toe-to-toe with Reigns and eventually eliminates him, only for Bryan to get a second wind and against the odds eliminates Rusev.  Lesnar faces Bryan at Mania, Bryan wins, Lesnar goes back to UFC. At some point after that, Rollins tries to cash in, Reigns interferes, says he never had his shot, Triple Threat at Summerslam, Reigns wins. Bryan and Rollins have legit claims to be in the title picture.  I also think that The Rock would be best used with Reigns he way Heyman is used for Lesnar. Let The Rock be his mouthpiece. Let The Rock come down in the suit and shades and do the talking for Reigns, building him up and making him cool again, and then let him power through everyone, that makes him a legitimate threat, and keeps The Rock in a role where it doesn't make Reigns look weak.  Maybe that sounds like crap to some people, but it's just a suggestion.  Also, I'd echo what some other people have said here. The booking of the Rumble itself was poor, there were no high spots, apart from Bray Wyatt, everyone just came in, got bogged down, and then hung around and waited to be dumped by Big Show and Kane. Who lays out a match like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 27, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 27, 2015 If I can play Devil's Advocate here - if Bryan is now 34 and with a bad neck, BUT is still drawing massive pops, maybe now is the time to give him his run before he's permanently knackered? The problem is, they could miss the boat with Reigns. They have the best chance of making a star since... well probably Cena. If they go with Bryan, his neck gives him another two years, then what two years down the line? You're back to square one. Reigns can be a star for years and years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Â If I can play Devil's Advocate here - if Bryan is now 34 and with a bad neck, BUT is still drawing massive pops, maybe now is the time to give him his run before he's permanently knackered? The problem is, they could miss the boat with Reigns. They have the best chance of making a star since... well probably Cena. If they go with Bryan, his neck gives him another two years, then what two years down the line? You're back to square one. Reigns can be a star for years and years. Â Â The annoying thing is that you are probably right in saying that they may well miss the boat with Reigns if they don't give him the big Mania title push this year, as if they don't he'll most likely be wrestling in meaningless matches with the same old people until we get bored of him for the next year. Â It's incredibly frustrating that it seemingly has to be that way thought. Why can't they just sit down and come up with a solid 6 months to a year of story-line stuff for someone, without it including the World Title? Where is the logic in saying "Well, if we stick the belt on Reigns, we'll have to protect him and he'll be fine" when you should just be able to come up with good stuff whether the belt is involved or not. This idea that only one big thing can be happening at once is really holding them back. It's a part of the silly logic they use where they think they can only push one bloke at a time towards the top. It's bullshit. push Bryan towards the title at Mania because he's hot as fuck right now and it makes perfect sense, and also come up with a shit-hot deal for Roman at Mania, with the idea of getting him ready for next year. You've got dozens of writers for crying out loud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstnameunknown Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 This idea that only one big thing can be happening at once is really holding them back. It's a part of the silly logic they use where they think they can only push one bloke at a time towards the top. It's bullshit. push Bryan towards the title at Mania because he's hot as fuck right now and it makes perfect sense, and also come up with a shit-hot deal for Roman at Mania, with the idea of getting him ready for next year. You've got dozens of writers for crying out loud! Â This applies to the Rumble itself too. Â Would it be so hard to give several guys some real momentum from at least around November time, so that you actually have a few reasonably realistic contenders to actually win the thing?! Â I can't remember the last Rumble that wasn't a predictable one or two horse race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 That's a fair argument, but surely you're not saying Roman Reigns right now is more of a draw/moneymaker than Daniel Bryan is? Â At this second? No, he most likely isn't yet. But it's plain to see how much more mass appeal Reigns has than Bryan so over the next one/two/five years, very possibly -- which wouldn't be the case if he spent 2015 having storyless rematches with Cesaro and Miz, slowly slipping down the importance ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
britwresevo Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 For an example of how over Roman Reigns could be, see the pop he got at TLC. They just have to do it right, not force him on us the way they seem to be hell-bent on doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 28, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not sure how I feel about the "Bryan is 34 and has a dodgy neck" argument. Austin's neck was absolutely fucked for all of 98-99 but they still pushed him to the moon. I know that Bryan is obviously nowhere near the level Austin was back then but the way I think of it is that if Bryan probably only has a short run in him why not milk it for all it's worth? The star power of the roster is so thin right now and Bryan is other than Cena the only genuine star they currently have. Give him a good six month run at the top of the card and milk it for all the money you can while giving the next crop of long term main eventers a strong push to eventually take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 28, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not sure how I feel about the "Bryan is 34 and has a dodgy neck" argument. Austin's neck was absolutely fucked for all of 98-99 but they still pushed him to the moon. I know that Bryan is obviously nowhere near the level Austin was back then but the way I think of it is that if Bryan probably only has a short run in him why not milk it for all it's worth? The star power of the roster is so thin right now and Bryan is other than Cena the only genuine star they currently have. Give him a good six month run at the top of the card and milk it for all the money you can while giving the next crop of long term main eventers a strong push to eventually take over. Absolutely fine in theory. But we've seen for the last few years that WWE is constantly unable to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. So if they pushed Bryan as their star name, all the talent underneath would end up in random lottery hell. No-one is getting any stronger. So in 6 months time, you've still only got Cena as a genuine main eventer and Bryan as what he is now. Â The flip side with a Reigns or Ambrose getting the super push is that as cunty as the smark crowds are, they are loyal to a guy like Daniel Bryan. So in 6 months you've got Cena, you've got Reigns or Ambrose and Bryan is always credible as a top player because this section of the crowd loves him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Awards Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm not sure how I feel about the "Bryan is 34 and has a dodgy neck" argument. Austin's neck was absolutely fucked for all of 98-99 but they still pushed him to the moon. I know that Bryan is obviously nowhere near the level Austin was back then but the way I think of it is that if Bryan probably only has a short run in him why not milk it for all it's worth? That's a bloody good point actually. Austin changed up his match style to avoid dem highspots and the booking worked with him with gimmick matches and tags so it has to be more that Vince just doesn't fully buy into the persona in a Rey Mysterio way like IAN (I think) said earlier. As Rick says, the WWE model is to focus on one and only one person and right now it's the greasy Samoan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.PeterVenkman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Speaking of Austin, the most uncomfortable I've ever been watching wrestling is when Benoit did those ten German suplexes on Austin in Calgary, cringed with every one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Not sure if this has been posted or if it is true but:  WWE reportedly had a variety of names backstage for the Royal Rumble PPV but didn’t really plan on using them. They wanted to swerve the Internet and have it leak the names that would appear. Randy Orton was backstage and was in his ring gear. Other names included Alex Riley, Sean Waltman, Chris Jericho and Nikolai Volkoff. WWE didn’t intend on using any of these people except for Riley. They were simply wanting to create buzz over the possible names.  The plan with Riley was to actually put him in the match at some point, but they ended up changing their minds. That’s why Riley was not a part of the Royal Rumble kickoff show. http://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-had-several-names-backstage-at-royal-rumble-but-didnt-use-them/  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Alex Riley, probably the only person who would have got less of a reaction than Curtis Axel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If their focus is on setting someone up to replace Cena than its not a terrible argument. Bryan is not that guy, partly because he's not someone you'd make a long term investment in. Cena has spoilt them in that regard, they've got a decade out of him. That's what they're looking for now, a long term investment. And its not like they're good at gigiving multiple people strong pushes at the same time, they're not. And there's not much to suggest there's a lot of cash to be made out of Bryan anyway. It's even more difficult when you consider that if they didn't pull the trigger on Roman they've shown no ability to protect him in the meantime, while bad booking won't make a dent on Bryan but will ruin shows. Â We're pretty much where we were ten years ago. Benoit and Eddie were hot and got the rub but they never saw them as sustainable or long term investments and.they realised they needed to make new stars, they got it wrong with Randy but had Batista and Cena to push at Mania instead. Batista had more momentum because he was in a hotter angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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