Paid Members tiger_rick Posted September 21, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2016 If you present someone with charisma Braun Strowman Well that plan's fucked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016   Has there ever been a time in the history of Raw where the show seems to have absolutely no stars at all? I really like Seth and Kevin Owens and stuff, but the headliners look like TNA off a few years ago. Like Bobby Roode and James Storm are main eventing, but you get that feeling they'll be back working tags in 3 months. Even when Raw was on its arse, you still saw Nash and Luger and they came across as stars. Even if they werent doing business, you'd at least go "I wouldnt mind meeting them at Woolworths". Its just strange watching Raw these days. Nothing really happens. We're counting down the months until Goldberg turns up or some fucker. I suppose the "band aid era" (as some have called it) has finally killed week to week. The Undertaker, Brock, Cena, HHH are the stars. Everyone else just hangs around. They haven't created a genuine star since 2005. To think that Cena and Batista were the last two genuine business effecting stars that they made is scary. Even the people we thought were stars like Punk and Bryan really weren't. They were just two guys that had a belt that hardcore fans liked but no one else wanted to pay to see. With the way they do things now, I just can't see where a star is going to come from. They'll never be able to make a star now until someone who has Internet points and proper star quality waltzes in through the doors of NXT -- and the two things usually cancel each other out, so it's unlikely that'll ever happen.  The problem they've got now is that creeps like us who watch every week are the sort who attend the TV tapings. And those fans at the tapings turn on anyone who might interest normals. Normals are never going to have any interest in the likes of Ambrose and Owens, and the crowd reactions will put them off the potential stars. It must be confusing as fuck as well in terms of clocking who the goodies and baddies are.  The problem will exacerbate as more normals drop off as well, to the point where it'll be almost completely insular. There's not even any way out of it now that I can see.  That's as concise a way of putting it as you're likely to find.  I've long suspected that by dictating the ebb and flow of the live crowds dey have basically sold the WWE themselves a bill of goods on what their next big stars are. I honestly think after years of weird crowd reactions even the top brass have started to buy it. Vince is still the last dude standing but he's got his daughter and her man in his ear waxing lyrical about their kids down in Florida.  I think NXT is functioning as one of the best things ever for incredible upper mid card talent. I think it's properties as a generation station for all your main eventers are way overblown. And none of the people who mythologise it seem to get that because they've more or less won and WWE in 2016 is their WWE. That's why it's so hilarious when they still find time to have a natter about the indie kids not getting a break. What are you smoking? It's your show.  The WWE are in a bit of a cul de sac now with it. Maybe they're comfortable and are going with it. They've basically got this giant nerd audience and have got the art of monopolising it nailed. I just wish that audience would admit to itself that the wider world is going to have sod all interest in Kevin Owens and his funny Twitter.  As poor as the handling of Roman Reigns push was I do wonder what shape the WWE would have been in now had the audience just stuck out the experiment and got on board with it. I know even with the biggest wankers in the crowd ever it's a bit audacious to ask of them to cheer a certain way and just play wait-and-see but I think the crowd have blood on their hands with that one. If the live crowds had helped his pops who knows how many casual (ugh) fans would have tagged along for the ride. I guarantee you business would have been much better now.  It's weird to think that we're often sold a bill of goods that years like 2003 and 2004 were the 'dark' times because WWE had no new stars immediately following Rock and Austin sodding off. Those years feel practically boom like now. Plenty of people still cared. Now it's a massive fan convention in the middle of a ghost town.  I echo the sentiment about Cena's stock having dropped massively as well. He's been showing arse and having inconsistent runs for years now. The face who runs the place is the bloke you know the upstart's going to beat. He has run into his veteran years without the massive audience respect Austin and Rock had so realistically he's got very little to barter with. On TV he comes across as a guy that gets booed loads then gets beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted September 21, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2016 They just need to commit fully and be smart about it. They buggered up their Reigns push the moment they decided he's best served losing the big one against Brock Lesnar (to Seth Rollins) and instead spend another year trying to get people to like him by doing part Daniel Bryan's underdog gimmick, part John Cena 2.0. Â Even if Reigns isn't and wasn't the guy, they didn't half make a mess of it. Â By the looks of it, they were properly going to go hard with Finn Balor, despite his limitations, but obviously Seth Rollins decided Bret Hart knows what he's talking about when it comes to wrestling. Â In other words, it's all Daniel Bryan's fault for being so bloody loveable and good. He ruined the business, dammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boytoy Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Is the WWE's business really that bad financially though? It is amazing that they have not created any stars but still manage to be so profitable. The business model is completely different to way back when. Â In their defense I think their biggest problem is the talent pool that they have to choose from. There just aren't many good looking, charismatic lads with the typical main event physique around who want to be wrestlers. If your looking for your 15 minutes of fame your best route isn't something as hard and as dangerous as pro wrestling. At the moment there are probably more two box guys than I can ever remember but none with the magic three (size/look, charisma, ability). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philjax Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 No Paige then...... Â I enjoyed the cruiserweights. Liked the presentation with the colour change and graphics. Exactly the kind of match I want on Raw to break up the monotony of backstage crap and endless Sheamus/Cesaro matches. Of course at the 2 hour 20 minute mark that was the first (and last) entertaining thing on the show really. I also thought it was a bit early for Kendrick to get his shot but I guess they needed someone experienced for the PPV. And true, Perkins should have at least been introduced. Â A lot of DELETE chants throughout the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackpot Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Owens could be a star and what's been shown over the past few years, is that an anti-American will still get booed and be hated. So turn him into a Canadian nationalist, just like Bret was. Get Jericho to be his second in command. Fuck it, throw Sami Zayn in there as well because he and Owens can't be kept apart and give Bobby Roode a call up from NXT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted September 21, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Scott D'Amore - your time has come. Â Actually, Have Kevin Owens and Scott D'Amore ever been seen in the same room at the same time? Edited September 21, 2016 by tiger_rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 21, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2016 (edited) Is the WWE's business really that bad financially though? It is amazing that they have not created any stars but still manage to be so profitable. The business model is completely different to way back when.  In their defense I think their biggest problem is the talent pool that they have to choose from. There just aren't many good looking, charismatic lads with the typical main event physique around who want to be wrestlers. If your looking for your 15 minutes of fame your best route isn't something as hard and as dangerous as pro wrestling. At the moment there are probably more two box guys than I can ever remember but none with the magic three (size/look, charisma, ability). I'm really not buying into the idea that they're struggling for talent. They've had tonnes of it come through the system. Even if they didn't have the typical 6 foot 4, ripped to shreds look, they've still had their pick of guys who could have been megastars. Yet in different ways every time they've somehow managed to fuck it all up. We always come back to it, but it's because it was so pertinent to the topic. Every time I think of that Wyatts vs. Shield match, I'm stunned at what amounted to all that talent. Erick Rowan was a bit shit, fair enough, but the rest of them should have all had incredible careers, filled with awesome matches, great stories, logical character development and meaningful title reigns. Look at the fucking state of them now. Even the ones who've had title runs and main event matches haven't even come close to reaching the potential they once had. Their entire roster can be described as damaged goods. Even when they manage to ignite a spark, like the night Kevin Owens won the belt, their follow-up is guaranteed to be as laughable as always.  But hey, at least Steph is kept strong for when her book comes out, eh? Edited September 21, 2016 by Supremo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 21, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2016 Actually, Have Kevin Owens and Scott D'Amore ever been seen in the same room at the same time? Definitely been seen together at catering over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 No Paige then...... Â Still injured. Not cleared to wrestle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted September 21, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted September 21, 2016 I think Ricky said she's reporting back to Raw this week, which isn't the same as wrestling on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakashi Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Owens could be a star and what's been shown over the past few years, is that an anti-American will still get booed and be hated. So turn him into a Canadian nationalist, just like Bret was. Get Jericho to be his second in command. Fuck it, throw Sami Zayn in there as well because he and Owens can't be kept apart and give Bobby Roode a call up from NXT. Â Depends who they position as their top babyface. Rusev is cheered against Cena and Reigns, their two top pushed babyfaces of the last seven or so years. Â Also, that stable is full of Indy guys that will get cheered. Even Jericho gets cheered because he's good. The whole cheer for people who are talented thing really fucks things up when you're presenting a fake battle between good and bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackpot Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016 Â Owens could be a star and what's been shown over the past few years, is that an anti-American will still get booed and be hated. So turn him into a Canadian nationalist, just like Bret was. Get Jericho to be his second in command. Fuck it, throw Sami Zayn in there as well because he and Owens can't be kept apart and give Bobby Roode a call up from NXT. Depends who they position as their top babyface. Rusev is cheered against Cena and Reigns, their two top pushed babyfaces of the last seven or so years. Â Also, that stable is full of Indy guys that will get cheered. Even Jericho gets cheered because he's good. The whole cheer for people who are talented thing really fucks things up when you're presenting a fake battle between good and bad guys. Â Rusev got booed against Cena. It's only now with Rusev losing the feud that people have a cob on with it but Cena was cheered because he was supporting the USA. As for Reigns, he's still getting booed because it isn't a Bulgaria/USA feud (thankfully). If it did, Reigns would receive cheers. Any babyface against an anti-America heel/stable would get cheered, just ask Jack fucking Swagger of all people. Â Indy lads or not, if it's anti-American, they'll get booed. Bret, Owen, Bulldog, Pillman. Four of the most respected men during their time got booed out of every arena in America because of their anti-American stance. Owens has already shown he can turn the fans against him - from "you deserve it chants" to boo's within the same promo. Jericho can turn the fans against him because he's that good on the mic. Roode has a track record with his Canada stable in TNA of getting fans to boo him because of an anti-American gimmick. Zayn can just stand in the background and let the other three create the heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted September 21, 2016 Share Posted September 21, 2016   Also, that stable is full of Indy guys that will get cheered. Even Jericho gets cheered because he's good. The whole cheer for people who are talented thing really fucks things up when you're presenting a fake battle between good and bad guys.  Its an interesting point. Are wrestling fans ruining wrestling for themselves? Sure, the argument has always been 'You can cheer or boo for who you like' and I agree but I do think fans are ruining it for themselves. We say nobody can draw real heat yet cheer Owens and Jericho because they are 'great heels'. We cheer Reigns for the cool moves he was doing and oozing a quiet charisma in The Shield yet as soon as WWE goes 'Okay, we'll push the guy' we all go 'Fuck, no' and boo him mercilessly and chant 'You cant wrestle' even though he clearly can.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted September 21, 2016 Awards Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2016 Â Â We screwed ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts