RAW 1000 Discussion thread.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Actually, I like Miz more than I like Bryan, but as WWE Champion, he was presented as an afterthought while the announcers and Rock/Cena feuded. Bryan, while his feud hasn't closed the show every week, he has been given the opportunity to look Punk's equal in promos and matches, making the champ submit on PPV in a controversial finish. He was given a hyped segment on the 1000th Raw, featured across two segments. You think Bryan's character will just take all that abuse? It's clearly leading him somewhere, especially with the element of AJ becoming GM. Also, "Yes!" is the most over thing in WWE.

 

Interaction with the Rock isn't anything special, considering plenty of wrestlers have that luxury. Not many interact with Charlie Sheen.

In the 18 months Rock has appeared back on WWE TV, he's appeared on TV for a sustained amount of time with Cena, Miz and Truth. That's plenty. Since Sheen was dropped from CBS, how often has he been in the media? Not much. Rock is coming off Fast Five and bringing out G.I Joe. He's high profile.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Sheen. I think his antics jumped the shark last year and his fall from grace was pretty bad, what with the drugs, getting dropped from a major network and getting replaced by Ashton Kutcher. Any future interaction Sheen has with Bryan will be fun, but it won't do much at all for him.

 

Miz pinned Orton after Punk finished him, don't try and pull that crap just because you think my Sheen/Jackass analogy was shit.

[Forrest]

Hollywood Ian is coming through. Will this new direction lead to a full-time heel turn?

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Actually, I like Miz more than I like Bryan, but as WWE Champion, he was presented as an afterthought while the announcers and Rock/Cena feuded. Bryan, while his feud hasn't closed the show every week, he has been given the opportunity to look Punk's equal in promos and matches, making the champ submit on PPV in a controversial finish. He was given a hyped segment on the 1000th Raw, featured across two segments.

Miz was on Jimmy Kimmel and Lopez promoting the WWE during his reign as champion. Daniel Bryan wasn't half the star Miz was, no matter how many times you say "he was made to look Punk's equal". Especially considering Punk wasn't presented as a uppercard champ as well. So I dont see how any of this proves your points to be valid.

 

You think Bryan's character will just take all that abuse? It's clearly leading him somewhere, especially with the element of AJ becoming GM.

Yeah, as I said IN MY ORIGINAL POST WHICH YOU QUOTED, its leading to him doing something with Charlie Sheen which will be far more important than anything he's done previously in WWE. Why are you keep ignoring what people are writing?

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Sheen. I think his antics jumped the shark last year and his fall from grace was pretty bad, what with the drugs, getting dropped from a major network and getting replaced by Ashton Kutcher. Any future interaction Sheen has with Bryan will be fun, but it won't do much at all for him.

By Rolling Stone

June 29, 2012 3:45 PM ET

 

Last night's premiere of Charlie Sheen's much-anticipated return to the sitcom world, Anger Management, drew a record-breaking 5.47 million total viewers for a scripted cable comedy debut, according to a statement from the FX network.

 

Of that total number, 2.65 million fell in the coveted 18-49 age demographic, which also marks a new high for the debut of a cable sitcom.

 

Those numbers – which grew to 5.74 million total viewers during the airing of the second episode of Anger Management that night – made the Sheen-helmed show the most-watched debut in FX history.

 

Stop being wrong. Its shocking how you think this Charlie Sheen thing wont do anything for him.

 

Hollywood Ian is coming through. Will this new direction lead to a full-time heel turn?

Ribs are gone from another sterling effort from Forrest.

[Devon Malcolm]

Although I hate Charlie Sheen, anyone thinking this feud won't be good for Daniel Bryan is a tremendous gimp.

[NEWM]

Miz pinned Orton after Punk finished him, don't try and pull that crap just because you think my Sheen/Jackass analogy was shit.

 

Aye, but his cash in on Orton wasn't your 30 second finisher situation. He had a good few minutes on offence, Orton got a hope comeback and Miz won. That's the memorable Orton clash, the Rumble win is a bonus.

 

I'm a big Miz fan and also felt he got a raw deal from his title reign and follow up, but he got given a couple of big moments too, and I've always felt he's that good that he's only one decent run away from a full rebound. He pisses on the Swaggers and Zigglers in that regard.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

I'm not saying Sheen will be bad for Bryan, I just don't think it'll have the effect you think it'll have. In the last 15 years, with all the celebrities used, only Tyson and Mayweather have brought any serious momentum to WWE or the stars they interact with. Hollywood guys don't do anything major, look at the Raw guest host era. Loaded with celebs just to appear on TMZ for a minute. What did that do for WWE or its superstars?

 

I think we're approaching the notion of stardom from different angles in relation to Miz. I'm talking about his fame as a wrestling star, you're talking mostly media. Miz has a media-friendly appearance, but you said it best, he was promoting WWE moreso than himself.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Hollywood guys don't do anything major, look at the Raw guest host era. Loaded with celebs just to appear on TMZ for a minute. What did that do for WWE or its superstars?

Hugh Jackman made Zack Ryder look amazing, Bob Barker did wonders for Raw, Donald Trump helped draw the biggest buyrate in WWE history, Shaq and the Big Show were on Sports Centre in the US, and lets not forget what Mr. T did for Hulk Hogan and what Cyndi Lauper did for Roddy Piper. In fact both of the WWF's giant boom periods came from a mainstream celebrity putting over the top star of the day. To say Mayweather and Tyson were the only ones in the last 15 years is a hilarious misfire.

 

Also, nobody is asking for Sheen to help lead Daniel Bryan to be the next Rock. It will get some eyes on him, and increase his value in the promotion, though.

[NEWM]

I'm not saying Sheen will be bad for Bryan, I just don't think it'll have the effect you think it'll have. In the last 15 years, with all the celebrities used, only Tyson and Mayweather have brought any serious momentum to WWE or the stars they interact with. Hollywood guys don't do anything major, look at the Raw guest host era. Loaded with celebs just to appear on TMZ for a minute. What did that do for WWE or its superstars?

 

Trump drew the biggest buyrate in company history and Lashley would have profited from that alongside his massive push, had he not got injured and seemingly not given that much of a fuck to begin with.

 

It's a longer game WWE plays with celeb involvement now, compared to the Tyson instant-buyrates/boom period type thing they used to shoot for. These days, a (good) celebrity appearance can last a lifetime in terms of image perception for brand and talent. I appreciate that's hard to translate to long-term ratings and dollars, but everything the WWE does now is more just a contribution to this enormous conglomerate that can be used/discarded at leisure. That's why quality control is a shitload lower, because something terrible is forgotten in a week, and something good is replayed till the end of time.

 

The guest host era was a flood of different people and a mixed bag for sure, but the positive memories (and pictures, and mentions, and interactions) of people like Bob Barker and more recently Hugh Jackman and The Muppets FAR outweighs the Dennis Miller duffer weeks.

 

The talent has to meet the star-based situation half way too, and I think Bryan is perfect choice in the sense that he won't be overawed by it all, but could still do to have a bit of shine added to his overall presentation. People seem to think that it's all down to the celeb in these situations, but often the wrestlers really let themselves down in spots such as these and don't benefit as they should. I have a feeling Bryan will absolutely nail this angle and reep the benefits for YEARS to come. DVDs, highlight reels, in promos as and when he wants. That stuff can last a lifetime if you want/need it too.

 

Think of EVERYTHING Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper have done in wrestling and Hollywood, and they still can't wait to talk about 85 and being held in the same light as the litany of stars they had at their disposal at the time.

 

I've noticed none of those paragraphs seem to relate to each other, and this is actually a pretty terrible post. The jist is basically though, "I think you're wrong about stuff."

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Hollywood guys don't do anything major, look at the Raw guest host era. Loaded with celebs just to appear on TMZ for a minute. What did that do for WWE or its superstars?

Hugh Jackman made Zack Ryder look amazing, Bob Barker did wonders for Raw, Donald Trump helped draw the biggest buyrate in WWE history, Shaq and the Big Show were on Sports Centre in the US, and lets not forget what Mr. T did for Hulk Hogan and what Cyndi Lauper did for Roddy Piper. In fact both of the WWF's giant boom periods came from a mainstream celebrity putting over the top star of the day. To say Mayweather and Tyson were the only ones in the last 15 years is a hilarious misfire.

Yeah, Ryder's run was completely due to appearing with Hugh Jackman, it wasn't to do with his online support and increasing crowd reactions that followed. What wonders did Barker do? It was a great episode of Raw, but did it lead to Raw getting huge sustained ratings boosts? Trump I'll give you. As far as the Shaq Sportcenter bit, it was just that, a bit and nothing more. It played, cool, Show didn't gain from it, it wasn't followed up on. I actually think if the rumoured Mania match had gone through, that would be significant.

 

I agree when it comes to the boom periods, but I also think the mystique of both WWE and Hollywood has lessened. If you really think Charlie Sheen is someone who can turn it around and bring attention to it, more power to you. Many people started dismissing Sheen after his meltdown, and morbid curiosity brings attention to his return. We'll see if media interest continues for him in the coming months. I maintain that the Rock's interaction with guys like Punk and Bryan does more for him, as Rock is great in both genres. Sheen could be really awkward in front of a live WWE audience, who knows? I'm interested in it. I still don't think it'll be massive, I think it'll draw some attention, like K-Fed, and it'll be fun. Somewhere, the idea happened that I was against Sheen and Bryan. I'm not, it sounds cool, but I don't see it doing anything long term. They teased Bryan getting involved with the Rock at the Rumble. That would be long term success.

[The King Of Swing]

I'm all for Bryan Vs. Sheen as long as it ends with Bryan kicking the shit out of him.

 

Amazing how at one time JBL seemed like one of the biggest twats on the planet and now he seems like one of the nicest blokes around, I guess he really was good at his character that or he has mellowed out since retirement but he comes across like a top bloke these days.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Yeah, Ryder's run was completely due to appearing with Hugh Jackman, it wasn't to do with his online support and increasing crowd reactions that followed.

Again I never said any of that, but whatever.

 

What wonders did Barker do? It was a great episode of Raw, but did it lead to Raw getting huge sustained ratings boosts?

It got them loads of publicity. WWE is a public company. Not everything is geared around ratings. Barker made them a hot talking point for a few weeks, which would have helped several areas of their business, due to the sheer amount of publicity Barker got them (it also established the guest host spot each week).

 

If you really think Charlie Sheen is someone who can turn it around and bring attention to it, more power to you. Many people started dismissing Sheen after his meltdown, and morbid curiosity brings attention to his return. We'll see if media interest continues for him in the coming months.

Yeah, ignoring his new hit show that is doing massive viewership currently, then.

 

I maintain that the Rock's interaction with guys like Punk and Bryan does more for him, as Rock is great in both genres.

Why? A one off segment where he's called "Frodo"? Is the business that shite, that people actually think Rock slagging him off and laughing at him in a Jonathan Coachman fashion is more important than Charlie Sheen doing an angle with him?

 

They teased Bryan getting involved with the Rock at the Rumble. That would be long term success.

No they didn't! Punk turned heel! The focus is CM Punk, The Rock and John Cena (and Big Show probably). Bryan was fodder to have the pissed ripped out of him. Where are you getting this from? In fact the reason Rock took the piss out of Daniel Bryan was to set up the Charlie Sheen thing.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

The talent has to meet the star-based situation half way too, and I think Bryan is perfect choice in the sense that he won't be overawed by it all, but could still do to have a bit of shine added to his overall presentation. People seem to think that it's all down to the celeb in these situations, but often the wrestlers really let themselves down in spots such as these and don't benefit as they should. I have a feeling Bryan will absolutely nail this angle and reep the benefits for YEARS to come. DVDs, highlight reels, in promos as and when he wants. That stuff can last a lifetime if you want/need it too.

 

One slight problem I'm having here is the assumption that something big is planned for Sheen. He could just show up, punch Bryan and leave. TMZ play it, then business as usual. Bryan is good enough to deliver if something big is planned.

 

Obviously, this is one of the first time I've really sunk into a debate on here. Still trying to wrap my head around how we got here from, "Ian doesn't think the Rock helps Bryan at all."

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

No they didn't! Punk turned heel! The focus is CM Punk, The Rock and John Cena (and Big Show probably). Bryan was fodder to have the pissed ripped out of him. Where are you getting this from?

In the segment, Bryan got in Rock's face and said he'll somehow face Rock at the Rumble. I got it from watching the segment. Right now, yes, Punk turned heel, but the Rock/Bryan/Punk segment talked about events in the more distant future. But to your point, yes, the business is that shite, that's why I don't have faith in Sheen doing much for Bryan. Sheen's not even booked for anything, we know the Rock will be at the Rumble. As far as Sheen's show, it's doing good in America, but I wasn't even aware it debuted worldwide. Raw was the first time I heard from Sheen since he was dropped from Two and a Half Men, hence my views on him differing from yours.

 

Yeah, ignoring his new hit show that is doing massive viewership currently, then.

Erm, that's what I was referring to with the "morbid curiosity surrounding his return", by "return" I meant to his new hit show. It could be flavour of the month. I'll say that out of all the TV shows I discuss with people I know, no one's said, "Hey, have you seen Sheen's new show?" The last Sheen related thing to make headlines around this way was the "Winning" song remix.

[Nick James]

Yeah, Ryder's run was completely due to appearing with Hugh Jackman, it wasn't to do with his online support and increasing crowd reactions that followed.

 

Not really what Ian said though is it? He said that Hugh Jackman made Ryder look good, as in while that night on Raw.

 

Hugh Jackman made Zack Ryder look amazing

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Erm, that's what I was referring to with the "morbid curiosity surrounding his return", by "return" I meant to his new hit show. It could be flavour of the month. I'll say that out of all the TV shows I discuss with people I know, no one's said, "Hey, have you seen Sheen's new show?" The last Sheen related thing to make headlines around this way was the "Winning" song remix.

I didn't know you were the paragon of mainstream discussion. Is the deal, if you haven't heard of it, it isn't news? If so maybe Daniel Bryan is wrestling the Rock at Royal Rumble, because nobody but you got that out of Raw.

 

I dont actually like Sheen. But he's a huge star. And far and away the biggest celebrity they've had in a while. It doesn't matter whether you think his mainstream status is based on whether or not you talked about it with Dave from Blockbusters this week.