Ryback

[Arch Stanton]

Maybe its an excuse but in one of the Legends of Wrestling shows Kevin Nash made a rather convincing argument as to why the streak needed to end, not why HE needed to end it, but just why it should be ended. I can't remember what he says exactly but its worth looking up if you haven't seen it.

Nash basically said the same as others have said in this thread- that the Streak was a totally linear storyline that was preventing Goldberg from developing as a character and working with the other main event acts. He was right about that. The Streak had served it's purpose in turning Goldberg from an unknown into a megastar in a relatively short space of time. Once established as a star, it was time to move on.

 

I don't necessarily want a streak angle for Ryback- I think it is restrictive. He can still be booked like an unbeatable monster though. I would be happy for the squashes to continue for the time being- moving onto handicap squashes would be a nice little development.

[King Pitcos]

I'd build him and Tensai up but never on the same show, leading to a staredown at the rumble then a match at Mania, Two undefeated monsters one on one at Mania would write itself.

I really hope that Tensai isn't still shitting about by the Rumble. And he's already beat Cena and R-Truth, so he's on a much faster track than Ryback. And he's a lot shitter. There's no way they can keep him around that long is there? Saying that, I've just remembered they kept Kozlov's mega-push going up until near enough WrestleMania 25, when he faced Shawn Michaels in a number one contender for the streak match. So they do have form for being bull-headed with a monster heel push that's not working.

 

I want to take this guy seriously as a fucking menace, but those low budget sci fi cozzies are taking something out of it.

I think they make him look... Two of a kind.

[JohnnyChimpo]

Thing is though is that you

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

Firstly Johnny Chimpo, calm down. Theres no need to fly off the handle just because I have a opinion that varies from yours. Jeez. I thought this was a friendly discussion of how WWE could of handled Goldberg.

 

It genuinely reads like your head is going to explode. Anyway to counter your points:

 

I'm not talking in extremes...

 

It seemed like it to me, so sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

 

Your post, to me, implied that the only other option was for Goldberg to sqaush everyone and then sqaush Triple H. In fact there were really three main options (to simplify things) a) have a sqaush streak b) have a streak of varying difficulty c) don't have either. WWE opted for the latter which in my opinion wasn't the way to go, though each approach naturally has pros and cons.

 

I'm confused. Would you still have had Goldberg come in against The Rock? Or would you actually have him start off going against preliminary guys? Cause that would be bat-shit mental. If WWE signed up Goldberg and had his first match against Spike Dudley then the wrestling universe would have imploded with the sheer retardation of it all.

 

You have (and neither do I) no idea whatsoever how fans would of reacted. Would I of put him against the Rock first...? Not sure to be honest. Though im not utterley convince that the fans would of shit on it as much as you claim.

 

Goldberg was a huge star, you do know that, right? The very last thing they should have done was put him in competitive matches with X-Pac, Goldust, Bubba Ray Dudley and Rico.

 

Stop being a patronising numpty, especially since you misunderstood my point.

 

I never said that he would get competitive matches with X-Pac, Goldust etc, I said "semi competitive". I was eluding to Goldberg facing a difficulty curve of sorts. I.e. Preliminary guy get killed with ease. Midcard guys get a few shots in but ultimately its one sided. Upper midcard guys are able to get more offense in but still ends with Goldberg looking strong, main event guys prove more difficult etc.

 

Im not saying the likes of X-Pac, Goldust etc would get competitive 50/50 matches... I'm saying that Goldberg's challenges would steadily get greater. Like what they did in WCW.

 

WWE had a year with Goldberg (less in reality, as it was one of those limited dates deals where he didnt appear each week), they didnt have a month or two worth of appearances to waste with him fighting nobodies.

 

Wasn't aware of that so yes the number of dates may change how he would be booked.

 

They had a year to play with, so they knew they had to get the belt on him, and back off him again by the Rumble. Like I said earlier, the appeal of the streak was how the challenges and opponents got a little tougher each week. The match he had with Raven was awesome during that run. Remember that?

 

Well yes. Which is why I suggested they duplicate it. Im not disagreeing with you. And I still think they would of hand time to do a streak... get the belt on him... get the belt off of him... within a year.

 

Do you think that match would have been as good had it happened the week after Goldberg beat Hogan? Hardly. You cant have Goldberg debut in WWE, go 1-0 in such dominant fashion over The fucking Rock, and then have JR try hype a Monday Night Raw main event of "Can Goldberg go 2-0 against Stevie Richards."

 

But heres the thing... they never presenting most of he streak victims as having a chance. It wasn't "will Goldberg lose against sick boy at 105-0"... it was "watch Goldberg destroy this silly heel midcarder... it'll be fun!"

 

Thing is NOW your started to put words into your mouth. I certainly DON'T think the WWE should have a Monday Night Raw main event of Goldberg vs Richards presented as a genuine threat to Goldberg. That would be daft.

 

A utter mid show mauling of Stevie Richards though? Yeah I'd enjoy that, even if he did just beat the "fucking" Rock on PPV the night before.

 

They had a limited time to play with, thought there was money matches there to be had with The Rock, Jericho (based on their real life beef), Triple H, HBK and Lesnar. They provided us with all those matches. Goldberg v preliminary guys, or Goldberg started at the bottom of the ladder and working his way up, wasnt what people wanted to see in 2003. They wanted to see him in whatever possible dream matches they could throw together at the time.

 

But I'm not saying they shouldn't put him in big matches. You could still have him have a streak AND go up against bigger names.

 

And personally I disagree with you... I think people would of loved to of seen Goldberg trample Spike Dudley, Al Snow, Maven or whoever the hell was around at that time. I know I would. Would everyone? No... but then you can't please everyone.

 

Do you think that WWE should have brought back Lesnar to feud with Zack Ryder first, to remind the audience of how dominant he is, and get over that he is a wrecking ball monster? I mean, he has been away longer than Goldberg was at the time. Or do you think that Lesnar should go over Cena at the next PPV then start have competitive matches against upper midcarders to build himself up for a title charge?

 

Well no. Lesnar wasn't built up via the streak in WCW. Therefore I wouldn't of used a "streak" gimmick to reintroduce Lesnar. The way WWE are using Lesnar right now is perfection.

[d-d-d-dAz]

It reads approximately nothing like his head is going to explode, actually.

 

This place is really shitty for people not being able to take counter arguments at times. I thought Chimpo's post was excellent.

 

That said, if you're 'not sure' whether you'd have brought Goldberg in against The Rock and you don't see that even suggesting a 'semi-competitive match' with Golddust is stupid then there is something seriously wrong with you.

 

It'd have been batshit mental if they'd have brought in the biggest wrestling megastar to not compete in the WWE and stuck him with anyone other than their biggest star. The minute Goldberg had come in and faced someone else, and become part of the furniture, the allure and aura of the feud with The Rock would have been damaged no end.

 

Also, presuming that there would have been any benefit in Goldberg coming in and starting incrementally beating nobodies, then having 'semi-competitive' matches against X-Pac whilst simultaneously contesting main event feuds is a contender for the daftest thing i've ever read. Seriously.

 

You say there is nothing wrong with him facing Stevie Richards after facing The Rock, but why waste their time? ...He's an established brand. He doesn't need to squash Steve Richards to prove something because it's already been proved. It's a waste of time. If anything, the over exposure of him by cross promoting main event feuds and meaningless mid-card squashes would have quickly over-exposed him, damaged the novelty value, and wasted his box office potential.

 

With Goldberg, like Lesnar now, you've got limited time. Just fucking swing for the fences.

 

Wrestling companies don't exist in their own little fiefdom's with limited audience crossover, the wrestling world (above and beyond brands) is inhabited by people willing to give most any company a shot. There would have been no-one who would have had encyclopaedic knowledge of WWE but no knowledge whatsoever of WCW's biggest creation. The Goldberg brand had been established. The streak angle had set him apart as a megastar, someone who only rubbed shoulders with the great-and-good. I know that, on occasion, mainstay main eventers like Triple H have had feuds with shitehawks from the midcard but this was a special attraction, a limited time deal. They'd have been retarded to not use him to promote dream matches and the like.

 

If they'd have spent that money and that effort to bring in an established brand and then tried to reset the clock and start over again with him it'd have been beyond shit.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

You needed to bring Goldberg in against the Rock. Rock was leaving for a year and Goldberg needed a massive match to kick start his WWE stint. You need to pit a big star against a big star. If you dont, you end up with that shite that was Rock and Cena vs Miz and R-Truth. Goldberg was a huge star, who all the fans wanted to see and he was earning seven figures per annum. He wasn't some scrub from OVW. You need to justify to your stockholders why you are paying this bloke who you never created a huge sum of money.

 

Christ, thinking about how Goldberg did turn out, can you imagine if they'd have started him off against shite wrestlers? His career would have been dead by Badd Blood.

[LaGoosh]

I was in high school when Goldberg came in to WWE. I told two people I knew who were "casual" fans that Goldber was coming in and facing The Rock and they both nearly jumped out of their seats with excitement and quickly started a big argument about who would win. That's the reaction WWE wants it's fans to have.

 

Now imagine if I had told them "Goldberg is coming into WWE and he's gonna go one one with Funaki!".

[JohnnyChimpo]

Firstly Johnny Chimpo, calm down. Theres no need to fly off the handle just because I have a opinion that varies from yours. Jeez. I thought this was a friendly discussion of how WWE could of handled Goldberg.

You tell me to calm down, and I'll tell you to stop being so sensitive, ya big girl. I really dont know how I offended you with my last post, but seriously, grow a pair.

 

Your post, to me, implied that the only other option was for Goldberg to sqaush everyone and then sqaush Triple H. In fact there were really three main options (to simplify things) a) have a sqaush streak b) have a streak of varying difficulty c) don't have either. WWE opted for the latter which in my opinion wasn't the way to go, though each approach naturally has pros and cons.

Really, there is no difference between a squash streak and a streak of varying difficulty. Especially when you want him against preliminary guys, then mid carders, then upper midcarders. They are just squashes and glorified squashes. Especially when, from your own words; "Midcard guys get a few shots in but ultimately its one sided". Yeah, thats a squash.

 

You have (and neither do I) no idea whatsoever how fans would of reacted. Would I of put him against the Rock first...? Not sure to be honest. Though im not utterley convince that the fans would of shit on it as much as you claim.

Thats bat-shit mental.

 

Stop being a patronising numpty, especially since you misunderstood my point.

I'm not misunderstanding your point. Your just changing your point, when your point is as vague as your making it, its easy to change what you mean. Your original point was (and I quote); "People paid to see Goldberg destroy people week in week out. Surely they could of given him jobbers / low end / midcard / tag team guys to destroy week after week. Heck, they only really needed to do it for a few months really to get over the fact he was this wrecking ball."

To which i was countering that he was bloody Goldberg, they didnt need (nor could they afford) to spend a "few months" to get over with the crowd that he was a wrecking ball. They already knew that. He was an established brand. Now your point has changed to just what you personally would have like to have seen.

 

And, if I'm being patronising by providing you with some names, why dont you give us a few instead? Who are the preliminary guys that would get destroyed? Who are the mid carders that would be semi competitive and who would be the upper mid carders who were actually competitive? I've asked you twice how you would have booked him, but still got nothing back from you in real terms. Its easy to say; "I'd have built him up with wins over midcarders and then moved him into the main event." Its just vague bullshit. Who are these people you would have had him in competitive matches with before going into the main event?

 

And Goldberg's challenges didnt need to get steadily stronger. He was bloody Goldberg for f's sake. He was a bona fide main eventer to start with. Why press the reset button with him?

 

Well no. Lesnar wasn't built up via the streak in WCW. Therefore I wouldn't of used a "streak" gimmick to reintroduce Lesnar. The way WWE are using Lesnar right now is perfection.

Now who is putting words in people's mouths? I never asked if they should do a streak gimmick for Lesnar. I asked if you would like to see him come back in, and face Zack Ryder first, then some midcarders before going into the main event. You know, to get over how much of a monster he is. Just rehash his initial run. You like that kind of thing. Replace Zack Gowen for Zack Ryder, CM Punk for RVD and then John Cena for The Rock. Or do you think that Lesnar is such an established star, that he doesnt need a few months to get over with the crowd how much of a monster he is?

[FLips]

His squash on this week's Smackdown is a treat. He adds yet another impact move to his arsenal, and the lariat is a wonder to behold.

[Loki]

AaaAAAANYway, regardless of how Goldberg was used, I totally think they should at least attempt a Lesnar/Goldberg style push with Ryback. Someone said earlier that this is the era of win-one, lose-one.... well, that's why it'd work! I don't even particularly think it needs to be a long streak, but if the point is got across that his offence is so brutally quick that the superstars he's beating don't even really get a chance to get started in the match, then it won't damage them in the long-term.

 

It's the sort of thing you should only do once every 5 years. Not everyone needs it - Cena's charisma and character developed slowly as a midcarder. But Ryback feels like the guy to go this route with.

[PSF]

What I want to seen is the guys watching the moniter in the back, laughing about the jobber thats getting killed, but then see the look on their face gradually turn from amusement to fear when they all start thinking "Who's Next?"

 

As pointed out earlier in the thread, you need the lower card guys in the back, such as Slater to look like they are absolutely bricking it at the possibilty of being clotheslined out of thier skin. Until one of the lower card guys actually steps up to the plate, someone like Mason Ryan, but still gets killed. Then start moving him onto guys like Otunga, Khali, etc.. I know this is running the same path as the already overly mentioned Goldberg push, but it WOULD work.

[Bohan]

His squash on this week's Smackdown is a treat. He adds yet another impact move to his arsenal, and the lariat is a wonder to behold.

 

Just finished this weeks edition myself and was going to post the exact same, he looked like a monster!

[Foale]

Perhaps that's the path they're already taking, but on a slow burn. There's certainly no rush with this one! Looking forward to watching his latest victim get mutilated tonight.

[NEWM]

Briefly if I may on the Goldberg thing, I've just watched all of Raw 2003 in the past few months, and though I agree Goldberg didn't need building by fighting nobodies, he could have done with shitloads more of those to sustain his act.

 

When he's absolutely fucking people up, he's over like nobody else on the show in the deathly quiet dying giraffe that is 2003 WWE. After The Rock, if they wanted Goldberg vs Jericho, Shawn Michaels, HHH (where he wins the title) and Brock, they really should have used his other appearances much, much better. His Raw stuff where he fucked about in silly segments, Highlight Reels, tag matches, ten minuters against Ric Flair, it's all a load of bollocks and totally not what the audience wanted from seeing him.

 

Hypothetically, if he's got a 6 week spell building up to one of those big matches roughly every other PPV, he needs to absolutely fucking crush one nobody a week (going 2 minutes tops, then screaming that the upcoming PPV opponent is Next), then in the go-home, crush one of his opponents mates. Those are semi-decent 5 minuters, but still nothing more than a road block for him. Give the heel a run in/beatdown at the end too, if you want. Then if you absolutely have to go 20 minutes on PPV, you do it, but that's after 6 weeks of him being nails. When he wins on PPV in something hard fought, he's both the killing machine and the hard worker. Finally, at the end of his year, he puts a babyface over on the way out - maybe dropping the belt against a gutsy Rumble winner like Benoit that way too. I'd say you'd have got good value out of that.

 

It would have never happened like that a million times out of a million the way HHH seemed to think things needed to be, but I reckon that would have been the WWE compromise for Goldberg.

 

Sorry to continue the thread derail. Ryback's mint.

[air_raid]

I know this is running the same path as the already overly mentioned Goldberg push, but it WOULD work.

 

If the fans pop for him murdering nobodies, then sure, move up to kind-of-name-talent and JTTS types.

 

My only fear is that fans latched onto Goldberg organically in spite of some relatively ropey early matches where he was doing too much - his series with Mongo was terrible - and once the formular was simplified they reacted positively because they liked what they were seeing. I'm not sure this will work out the same way.

 

I can foresee two potential problems with the Ryback formular - either they get bored of the routine rather quickly because they know what they've going to see, i.e. exactly the same as last weeks show, and "great, I've got just enough time to get to the toilets and back in time for the next segment." Or, longtime fans might see through it as a forced and artifical attempt to replicate the Goldberg push which as I mentioned, I thought was relatively organic.

 

Hope I'm wrong and they do succeed in making Ryback a star, because they need new stars. Feel free to come back and laugh at me in six months time if he's cracked the main event.