WWE Extreme Rules Discussion Thread

[edgecrusher]

-deleted-

[CleetusVanDamme]

Alvarez was clearly saying that in the last four years, Brock Lesnar has been the biggest draw in pro-wrestling and MMA.

 

And I'm clearly saying that he hasn't even appeared in pro-wrestling in the last four years, so HOW THE FUCK can he be the biggest draw in the business? Exactly, he can't.

 

You can cry and squeal "crossover appeal" without any evidence and do the "everyone who orders UFC ppvs is a massive fan of Brock Lesnar as a wrestler and if WWE had let him go unbeaten til next years Wrestlemania they would all become wrestling fans and the show would do a billion buys" routine all you want. You're talking shit.

 

If UFC and WWE are so similar that we can point to UFC buyrates to show how big a draw he is as a wrestler, then Extreme Rules HAS to do a UFC-like buyrate, right?

 

As witty as they no doubt are to some, the remarks to Manchester United and David Beckham spectacularly miss the point.

 

I think you're spectacularly missing the point. I'm clearly saying that Manchester United are the biggest draws in football AND pro-wrestling over the last 15 years.

 

It's annoying, isn't it?

[Devon Malcolm]

they booked him as if he was just another guy on the roster.

 

Oh come on. He spent the best part of 15 minutes absolutely trouncing the biggest name in the company. It was practically a squash! What other "guy on the roster" has done that in a fair fight situation recently? No-one.

 

It's just one of those easy statements that people throw out there without actually thinking what they are typing. In no way did he look anything like what you are saying. He fucking murdered Cena.

[edgecrusher]

If UFC and WWE are so similar that we can point to UFC buyrates to show how big a draw he is as a wrestler, then Extreme Rules HAS to do a UFC-like buyrate, right?

 

I more or less agree with you, but if the Extreme Rules buyrate does have a big increase it would be indicative.

 

Personally I think it's more that wrestling fans like MMA, but MMA fans don't like wrestling, so it's a one-way crossover.

[Sphinx]

To put it simply, if Brock were to walk during this undefeated streak, their product would look like a joke. If they have even one match where they can say 'well, our top guy beat the former UFC champ and toughed it out with him', their product looks good.

 

To who? Who is it they are trying to 'look good' to? The outside world that will always laugh at wrestling and will attach not one bit of significance to a formerly real fighter being paid to lose a fake fight to one of WWE's fake wrestlers?

 

To their fans? I think it should be assumed that the product looks good to their own fans. If it doesn't then this won't help anyway.

 

Who did they send this message to, and who received and believed it?

 

As far as I can tell, the only people who care are the fans they already have.

 

To who would it look good if Lesnar went on an undefeated streak and then lost to Rock at Mania, or whatever your plan is? Perception is reality. You say about the outside world laughing at wrestling, and a lot do understandably, but some of my mates who haven't watched in ages are interested in Brock being back. I watched the PPV with a guy who is a very casual wrestling fan. He had no gripes with Cena winning and was well into the match, as we all were. The match made Lesnar look a monster. He's not just another WWE guy.

[King Pitcos]

And Brock Lesnar hasn't been one of them for nearly ten years. Cop yourself on, good lad.

 

Neither was Mark Henry. And it still worked with him.

Have a word with yourself. Brock Lesnar is not a long-term midcarder with a few failed main event pushes behind him trying to get over as a big deal. He's back in WWE on a part-time megastar contract after a big run in real fighting, with aura and backstory to the gills. He doesn't need to win over the audience. He's already money, and every match he has is a rare special attraction. Unless you're special needs, you already know that.

 

You think he's a good booker, then? You think the Russo-era WCW was good, ratings-drawing television?

No, but you've brought up Russo several times in this thread and none of the times have been relevant.

 

Oh definitely not my mum. She couldn't even stir up the energy to pretend to care about what you have to say.

Twenty years on the game has taken its toll on her, poor woman.

[neil is brill]

Unbeaten people have always mattered in wrestling.

And Brock Lesnar hasn't been one of them for nearly ten years. Cop yourself on, good lad.

 

I think he is on about this run currently.

 

The thing is, you don't get a seperate win/loss record for each individual run you have. It's been said already by myself and many others. Brock Lesnar being pushed as being undefeated is impossible. Like I said to classicsguy, he's a former UFC champion and a former 3 time WWE champion. All this has been promoted on TV recently. The fact that they've used the word "former" suggests that he has lost matches prior to this run. "Brock Lesnar, undefeated, except for those times he was defeated for the championship" doesn't really work.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

When you start bringing Russo into the argument, you've acknowledged one smart arse clich

[The Brain]

Unbeaten people have always mattered in wrestling.

And Brock Lesnar hasn't been one of them for nearly ten years. Cop yourself on, good lad.

 

I think he is on about this run currently.

 

The thing is, you don't get a seperate win/loss record for each individual run you have. It's been said already by myself and many others. Brock Lesnar being pushed as being undefeated is impossible. Like I said to classicsguy, he's a former UFC champion and a former 3 time WWE champion. All this has been promoted on TV recently. The fact that they've used the word "former" suggests that he has lost matches prior to this run. "Brock Lesnar, undefeated, except for those times he was defeated for the championship" doesn't really work.

 

His last loss in MMA was to Alistair Overeem. I am refusing to acknowledge that as a loss.

 

But yes, I agree. However, beating him early takes away some of the aura as a monster somewhat. They will need to rehab him which they tried to do on RAW with the injury angle with HHH.

[edgecrusher]

they booked him as if he was just another guy on the roster.

 

Oh come on. He spent the best part of 15 minutes absolutely trouncing the biggest name in the company. It was practically a squash! What other "guy on the roster" has done that in a fair fight situation recently? No-one.

 

It's just one of those easy statements that people throw out there without actually thinking what they are typing. In no way did he look anything like what you are saying. He fucking murdered Cena.

 

Yeah, then he lost clean and Cena cut a promo, and then on the next night Cena came down on RAW exactly the same as ever and now he's in the main event of the next PPV. Getting 'fucking murdered' by Lesnar seems to have had zero effect on ol' Johnny.

 

You're right in that it was a bad phrase. It implies more than I meant so I'll retract that. But I still don't see how Lesnar is being booked as being something truly special.

 

When you say recently, how recently do you mean? Or do you mean specifically kicking the crap out of John Cena? If it's that then no one I can think of. In a more general sense just about any time they book Kane against someone they don't care about, or back when The Undertaker was a main guy and around more often due to having legs. The difference is those matches tended to be shorter.

 

So yeah, some bad on my part.

[King Pitcos]

When you start bringing Russo into the argument, you've acknowledged one smart arse clich

[edgecrusher]

To who would it look good if Lesnar went on an undefeated streak and then lost to Rock at Mania, or whatever your plan is? Perception is reality. You say about the outside world laughing at wrestling, and a lot do understandably, but some of my mates who haven't watched in ages are interested in Brock being back. I watched the PPV with a guy who is a very casual wrestling fan. He had no gripes with Cena winning and was well into the match, as we all were. The match made Lesnar look a monster. He's not just another WWE guy.

 

Wrestling fans. Who else? Wrestling fans have always dug winning streaks, especially on big, scary dudes.

[patiirc]

His last loss in MMA was to Alistair Overeem. I am refusing to acknowledge that as a loss.

 

But yes, I agree. However, beating him early takes away some of the aura as a monster somewhat. They will need to rehab him which they tried to do on RAW with the injury angle with HHH.

 

 

Aura as a monstah has been lost? He completely knocked the shit out of Cena. Cena won through through what effectively was a fluke afte Brock got too cocky. The first jump over the ropes and nearly corpsing himself was indicative of that and the second time, into the padlock reiterated that Lesnar was taking the piss/getting too big for his boots by toying with Cena

 

 

What Rehab is needed? Booked like a monstah, looked like a monstah and still is a monstah, who can cripple people on a whim.

[InvertedSmiley]

Alvarez was clearly saying that in the last four years, Brock Lesnar has been the biggest draw in pro-wrestling and MMA.

 

And I'm clearly saying that he hasn't even appeared in pro-wrestling in the last four years, so HOW THE FUCK can he be the biggest draw in the business? Exactly, he can't.

 

You can cry and squeal "crossover appeal" without any evidence and do the "everyone who orders UFC ppvs is a massive fan of Brock Lesnar as a wrestler and if WWE had let him go unbeaten til next years Wrestlemania they would all become wrestling fans and the show would do a billion buys" routine all you want. You're talking shit.

 

If UFC and WWE are so similar that we can point to UFC buyrates to show how big a draw he is as a wrestler, then Extreme Rules HAS to do a UFC-like buyrate, right?

Try reading Alvarez's line again.

 

"Tell me when in history WWE will ever again raid a former UFC heavyweight champion who also happens to have been the single biggest draw in pro-wrestling or mixed martial arts over the past four years"

 

It is very, very clear. He is not saying that Brock Lesnar has been the biggest draw in pro-wrestling over the past four years. He is stating that out of pro-wrestling and mixed martial arts, Brock Lesnar has been the biggest draw of the last four years.

 

Quite obviously I didn't say that "everyone who orders UFC ppvs is a massive fan of Brock Lesnar as a wrestler". That would be stupid. What I said was that at least some of UFC's draw during that time was surely down to wrestling fans who wanted to see Brock Lesnar. I know I hadn't watched a single UFC show before Brock Lesnar competed. Maybe I'm the only one?

 

I would go out on a limb and guess that the Extreme Rules buyrate will be bigger than usual, although not significantly so, not on the back of - what - two, three weeks build-up? Not when a good deal of Brock Lesnar's heat has already been sucked away from him by alligning him with John Laurinaitis in some out of nowhere squabble of his with John Cena.

[The Brain]

His last loss in MMA was to Alistair Overeem. I am refusing to acknowledge that as a loss.

 

But yes, I agree. However, beating him early takes away some of the aura as a monster somewhat. They will need to rehab him which they tried to do on RAW with the injury angle with HHH.

 

 

Aura as a monstah has been lost? He completely knocked the shit out of Cena. Cena won through through what effectively was a fluke afte Brock got too cocky. The first jump over the ropes and nearly corpsing himself was indicative of that and the second time, into the padlock reiterated that Lesnar was taking the piss/getting too big for his boots by toying with Cena

 

 

What Rehab is needed? Booked like a monstah, looked like a monstah and still is a monstah, who can cripple people on a whim.

 

I guess the WWE have educated everyone that wins and losses are meaningless but to me the outcome will be remembered more than what the finish is in time.

 

The booking of Lesnar has brought about some fantastic debate on here however with people split on whether the loss will hurt Lesnar long term; I agree that he was booked to look strong and that he literally destroyed Cena. I just think long term a win for Lesnar would of built up a bigger match in the future between the two.