WWE Extreme Rules Discussion Thread

[Murtz]

That was the first Cena comeback win that I honestly didnt care about whatsoever, purely because I was still in awe of what happened 20 minutes before. The match start to finish was just so perfect, and even though Brock obviously takes most of the praise, Cena did pretty awesome in the way he took the beating.

 

Brock fucking Lesnar is back. I still cant fully believe it.

[Devon Malcolm]

Watching Cena's superman wins are always worth it just to see Pity post that pic to annoy the haters (Dopper and co) even more

 

He really could have posted it about 40 more times in this thread, too, and it never would have got boring. Some of the anti-Cena comments in this thread are staggeringly myopic.

[fye]

I listened to this as well, as much as I can't stand Dave Meltzer, he's better than that Alvarez cunt!

 

They end almost every point with "who cares?" or "what does it matter?" Well why bother doing a show at all? He talks shite, even Meltzer has to explain things to him and then he just agrees with him.

 

I dont say this to be antagonistic but I am really intrigued about why you listen to it if you cant stand one and think the other is a cunt.

[Jetta's G-string]

PPV of the year so far. That is all

[Sphinx]

Lance Storm gives his 2 cents. This was written before Raw.

 

Booking Brock Lesnar

 

April 30, 2012

 

I teased this commentary on twitter earlier today, saying something to the effect that this commentary was to show that most of the people bitching that WWE killed Brock Lesnar by having John Cena beat him at the Extreme Rules PPV last night are narrow minded. Upon posting that I of course was inundated with people saying how they agree with me completely that they thought beating Brock Lesnar made total sense and was absolutely the right move.

 

These two extreme views (pun intended) are really what inspired this commentary. I've been in the wrestling business for more than 20 years now and if there is one thing I've learned is that there are almost no absolutes. Almost no decision is absolutely 100% clear cut and even bad decisions are almost never uncorrectable. It is with that thinking that I take exception to all of those who freaked out saying that "WWE killed Brock Lesnar with the loss last night, and effectively flushed the whole angle down the toilet." There is more than one ways to skin a cat and I'm going to present what I would do Booking Brock Lesnar from this point forward and present a case on why Cena winning last night was not the worst decision ever made.

 

With all that said let me be clear, if it were up to me I would not have beat Brock Lesnar last night; I am just presenting an argument on why WWE may have decided to do so and offering what my booking strategy would be moving forward.

 

For those that argue that a loss in his first match is a burial and kills Brock as a PPV draw I would like to point out Brock Lesnar's UFC run and what happened there. Brock was one of, if not the biggest PPV draws in UFC history. UFC brought Brock Lesnar into the real world of MMA from the (I hate to use this word but it illustrates my point) fake world of Pro Wrestling. If there was ever a case where a guy needing credibility right out of the gate this was it and what happened in Brock's first UFC fight? Not only did he get beat, he tapped out in 90 seconds. Did this kill Brock Lesnar? Was Brock Lesnar dead as a PPV draw? Of course he wasn't, he came back, dominated, won the UFC Heavyweight Title, and drew a ton of money for UFC, and he could still do that for WWE if booked correctly moving forward.

 

Now certainly the argument can be made that Brock would have been an even bigger draw in UFC had he not lost that first fight, but I'm not 100% sure of that, because the Mir rematch was a gargantuan money maker, and more to the point I'm not arguing that beating Brock was the best choice just not necessarily the worst won either.

 

Now let's look at some of the up sides to beating Brock at Extreme Rules. Brock Lesnar is a guy that does not love pro wrestling and in his last run in WWE he beat almost every big Star in the company and then quit. While he did do a job on the way out the program he was in on his way out was with Bill Goldberg who unfortunately was also leaving the company. So Brock essentially beat the entire WWE roster and the only guy who managed to beat him wasn't sticking around either. That has to be at least a small concern when moving forward with Lesnar now. Is it safe to book him undefeated for a long stretch? In a perfect word yes, because it will mean more when he eventually loses, but Pro-Wrestling is seldom if ever a perfect world. I've even heard arguments that he should go undefeated all the way to WrestleMania for the ultimate show down with either Rock or Undertaker. While again that sounds great on paper there are two concerns. 1: Will he make it to WrestleMania without, getting hurt, becoming ill again, or quitting? And 2: Do you want him beating your entire roster for a year to eventually get beat by a guy who much like at Mania XX with Goldberg, isn't sticking around after that match?

 

With all that in mind, I can understand why WWE might want to hedge their bets a little and get a win on the books over Brock for one of their tops stars, and once you've made that decision doing it first is not only the safest way but also gives you the most amount of time before WrestleMania to build him back up. He can now go on an 11 month winning streak to build to WrestleMania if they want and if anything goes wrong along the way and Lesnar leaves they have the footage of John Cena pinning Brock that they can air time and time again. With that out of the way let's look at the booking possibilities going forward because there are some amazing parallels that can be drawn.

 

Exactly like his UFC career Brock lost his first match in to a former Heavyweight Champion in a match he looked very strong and dominant in. After that match many critics said he was done and the Mir loss exposed him. Tonight on RAW you could have Johnny Ace cut a promo on Lesnar saying that he didn't pay him all this money and give in to all of his contract demands to have him lose to John Cena. In response Lesnar could point out that it was a lucky punch with a steel chain wrapped around it and he could fight Cena 1000 times and he'd beat him 999 of them; last night was that one fluke. Johnny could then challenge Lesnar to prove he's everything he claims to be and book him against a strong top level guy, on the June PPV in a "Must Win" type match for Lesnar.

 

Again this mirrors his UFC career in that his second fight was against the fairly strong MMA veteran Heath Herring in a match many people viewed as a "Must Win" fight for Lesnar speculating that UFC would cut their losses and release him should he lose the Herring fight. Brock went on to dominate Herring in a completely one sided affair. This is how I would book Lesnar in WWE. Book him in a match on the June PPV with a long standing veteran of WWE, perhaps The Big Show and have Brock completely dominate and destroy him in his next fight.

 

From here I would book Lesnar in a WWE Title match at the July PPV. This again would mimic Brock's UFC run because his third UFC fight was against Randy Couture for the UFC Heavyweight Title. If you wanted to protect CM Punk you could always hold a draft before then and switch the WWE and World Titles from RAW and SmackDown and have Brock beat Sheamus for the World Heavyweight Title instead. In his post match victory celebration Brock freaks out and goes all nutty screaming at the crowd and anyone who will listen, "Can You See Me Now...Can You See Me Now"? This is of course the same line he used in UFC and also sets up the Summer Slam rematch with Mr. "You Can't See Me" John Cena.

 

This moves us into August and the big Summer Slam rematch with John Cena, the former champion who beat him in his WWE return debut. Once again mimicking his UFC run, where he faced Frank Mir at UFC 100 in the much anticipated rematch. While I would not expect Summer Slam to set an all time record like Lesnar vs. Mir II did, I contend it could be a very strong Main Event draw. In the rematch Brock Lesnar gets his win back in dominant fashion and retains the WWE or World Title and can cut the promo: "John Cena had a horseshoe up his ass, I told you people that 4 months ago, well I pulled that son of a bitch out and beat him over the head with it...WOOOOO"

 

From here WWE can do what they want. Brock is over very strong, and you have 7 months to build him to WrestleMania, to face either The Undertaker or The Rock or even the rubber match with Cena if you like.

 

Again in closing I am not saying this is a better approach than keeping him undefeated, or the best way to do things moving forward, just illustrating that there are options and anyone who thinks beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is only one way to do something, really doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Lance Storm

[Mr. Seven]

Lance Storm can fuck off.

 

And I didn't even read a single word.

[Chris B]

I just listened to Bryan Alvarez banging on about how it's the most stupid finish ever. Alvarez has the most annoying, whiney voice and emphasises words like a twat too.

 

They were saying that Lesnar should have come in as a face as that's where all the feuds are. What, Lesnar vs. Jericho? Lesnar vs. Del Rio? Lesnar vs. Bryan? If he was a face it'd be even worse if he upped and left. As a heel, they've pitched him as a mercenary which is perfect. Even the Chicago crowd were cheering Cena last night.

 

Sorry, but that's complete bollocks. I listened to the show as well, and you completely missed what they were saying. They said that the money matches were him as a heel, because that's where the opponents were. They also said, separately, that the crowd wants Lesnar to turn face eventually, and if they do it quickly, it'll probably work for the crowd because part of them wants to cheer him.

 

But they specifically said the feuds were all with Lesnar as a heel. They spent ages talking about Lesnar vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania, for example.

 

They also talked about that as part of the finish. That one of the biggest money matches you could do with Lesnar would be an undefeated Lesnar vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania next year.

 

I definitely don't agree with everything they said, but let's not make shit up and say that they said it.

[Sphinx]

I'm trying to find where they talk about it without listening to the whole show again. I'm struggling. I'll take your word for it that I misheard it. Taker and Brock could be face vs. face like Triple H and Taker (though admittedly I don't think it'd be as good).

 

I think they made a big deal of Eve saying 'it's not Kharma' too. I think if the plan was to have Kharma coming back, then they should have done that rather than swerving the fans. But I don't think it affected anything saying it weren't Kharma as most fans wouldn't have known Kharma was scheduled. I reckon they said it to quell any Kharma chants or have the live crowd shit on it.

 

I really can't understand that Austin's name is still being floated about for a match with Lesnar. I would put

[Loki]

So, watched the main event last night.

 

Pfff... I dunno. I thought it was a good match, but clearly not as good as a lot of people on here. It was an extremely effective half hour ass-kicking, but I didn't think it was nearly as entertaining as Rock-Cena. It certainly was a spectacle though.

 

And despite myself, I was disappointed by the Cena win. I can see all the arguments for it, it's probably the wise thing to do, but it deflated the story I thought they were telling, which was that Brock was an unstoppable monster, worse than last time, and things were going to get real. Cena losing would have furthered the "what's happened to Cena" storyline, and made a rematch after a layoff all the more interesting. Where's the heat for a rematch now?

 

If the WWE decide to feed Lesnar to all their top blokes in succession, whilst it'll be immensely entertaining for them it's just silly business. Lesnar is young still, if he has a decent run this year and enjoys himself he'd probably come back on and off, a little like Rock or Jericho or whoever. There's plenty of longevity in him, if he's kept happy. He's been a WAY bigger PPV draw than any of their wrestlers over the past few years, they should swallow their pride and use him with selling PPVs in mind, not getting some wins back from 2002.

 

All that said, it's good to have him back, and ultimately he's the winner as long as he gets paid a lot of money and doesn't give a shit.

 

Cena's speech was just plain weird. Can't see that as anything but a mistake.

[Loligan]

I listened to this as well, as much as I can't stand Dave Meltzer, he's better than that Alvarez cunt!

 

They end almost every point with "who cares?" or "what does it matter?" Well why bother doing a show at all? He talks shite, even Meltzer has to explain things to him and then he just agrees with him.

 

I dont say this to be antagonistic but I am really intrigued about why you listen to it if you cant stand one and think the other is a cunt.

 

Fair question, thought it might come up,

 

1. I was bored

2. It was free

3. Was interested in the Lesnar fight fallout so wanted to hear what was being said.

[fye]

Thanks for the response. I dont listen to that kind of thing myself, it just seemed strange that someone who didnt like the hosts would bother with it.

[King Pitcos]

So, watched the main event last night.

 

Pfff... I dunno. I thought it was a good match, but clearly not as good as a lot of people on here. It was an extremely effective half hour ass-kicking, but I didn't think it was nearly as entertaining as Rock-Cena. It certainly was a spectacle though.

Did you already know who won?

[Loki]

So, watched the main event last night.

 

Pfff... I dunno. I thought it was a good match, but clearly not as good as a lot of people on here. It was an extremely effective half hour ass-kicking, but I didn't think it was nearly as entertaining as Rock-Cena. It certainly was a spectacle though.

Did you already know who won?

 

Yeah, and you're right that probably played a part in it. As a standalone match, it really was excellent. I guess knowing what happens on Raw makes it even stranger to watch it.

[JNLister]

Did you already know that nobody died?

[Loki]

Wait, nobody died?