WWE Extreme Rules Discussion Thread

[NEWM]

Yeah, so basically, like anybody else in the world, Alvarez had an idea of how he would like Brock to be booked. Then they do it the way they want to book him, which is different, and Alvarez has period about it. That's basically where we're at with this isn't it? Just like any shitehawk wrestling website hack, but because he's got that show or he's on Meltzer's site, there's supposed to be an added sense of authority? No thanks.

 

His cards were marked with me when he wrote that fucking fiction book about WCW with RD Reynolds (another guy who needs just fuck completely off, he's so outdated in his views now).

 

I love to hate Bryan Alvarez lately, he's the biggest cunt in the world to me but I enjoy getting pissed off with him.

 

Oh, and Loki - I can't imagine that match being quite the same a few days later having known the result AND watched Raw. Aesthetically and physically still very entertaining, but it was an epic encounter live, and very easy to pick a side and emotionally invest. I've said it enough I know, but Cena's the best wrestler in the world as far as I'm concerned - he's the only full time guy out there that has it in him to create that feeling, and he brings it out of whoever he's up against too.

 

On another point, though I totally expected it, I'm still a bit miffed that he's being given the short end of the credit for the match off the usual suspects online. Just like with Punk at MITB, he's the one that has the presence, the timing and the aura to put these things on another planet. I'm not discrediting Lesnar either, he was outstanding. They both were. That's how great matches happen. But Cena is the man, and it gets increasingly frustrating when he stacks piles and piles of examples up and the supposed experts just ignore it. Pricks.

[LaGoosh]

I agree with you there. I am no John Cena fan, and to be honest if I'm watching Raw I'll usually skip his matches or lose interest. But the undeniable fact is, when it comes to the big huge main event level matches that matter...John Cena never disappoints.

[Egg Shen]

on the subject of the Cena promo post-fight. Did Cena pretty much go into business for himself at that point? There's rumors that he was meant to go out on a stretcher and whatever, but Cena cut the promo. What was the talk of pissing off the boss about? was it cause he bled? was it cause he changed the ending? he spoke of going away for a while but turned up on Raw the next night...did Cena just feel he was legit hurt at that point?

[NEWM]

The more I think about Cena's speech, the more I think it was just a more contemporary way of doing a worked shoot. Make the cleverdicks like us AND the kids think he was serious about some sort of arm injury/time off, which in theory makes his next story on Raw (which I'm intentionally not mentioning in case its still a spoiler) seem more meatier and realistic considering he's just been through absolute hell against Lesnar. The "my boss won't like this stuff" is probably more of a line towards Big Johnny in a storyline, rather than some reference to Vince in the back. The speech looks like the sort of thing that happens off air after the show, but in reality, it's hard to imagine them "just leaving the PPV cameras rolling" or whatever, it was probably written in like everything else.

 

Sorry if I've just stated the obvious to people there and most thought that all along, but I think WWE are pretty good and blurring and confusing the lines now. And because we do all know and see so much beyond what gets shown on the shows, it's actually made us easier to fool again.

[DJ Kris]

Also the way Alverez goes on about how that match should have been books as though he is some kind of booking expert was really grating. What is his wrestling background exactly? How many successful angles has he booked? Isn't he just a wrestling journalist?

 

While I do agree that Alverez can be very annoying at times, I thinks it's unfair to state his opinion is wrong because he hasn't got a booking background in wrestling.

I wasn't stating his opinion was wrong because he doesn't have a wrestling background, I was stating his opinion was wrong because he was basing it on stuff that didn't happen such as the clean finish he referred to in the first line.

 

Also the way Alverez goes on about how that match should have been books as though he is some kind of booking expert was really grating. What is his wrestling background exactly? How many successful angles has he booked? Isn't he just a wrestling journalist?

I don't really agree with him on this, but everyone has a right to criticize anything, regardless of whether or not they do that job themselves, or have proven that they could do better. I'm sure the majority of us here who like football have slagged off a pro-team at one point or another, despite the fact that we likely couldn't make that team ourselves. It's the "you've never been in the ring" argument, just from a different angle, and it's a silly one.

You misunderstand me, I'm not saying he isn't entitled to an opinion, same as the rest of us, however it seems he puts himself off as though he's giving an expert opinion and in fact I'd say he puts his opinion over as if it were fact, which it certainly isn't.

 

Also the way Alverez goes on about how that match should have been books as though he is some kind of booking expert was really grating. What is his wrestling background exactly? How many successful angles has he booked? Isn't he just a wrestling journalist?

 

He's a former independent wrestler. Been involved in some relatively successful angles on a local basis.

So basically his actual wrestling background is minimal. Mind you that can be said of the WWE writers!

[neil's bitch]

With the Cena speech, it sounded like he was just saying thanks to chicago, as well as implying that "his boss" (am guessing Lauranitis) was going to make him go on a forced holiday, so it sounded all "Work" to me.

 

From reports, i think Brock may of got his wires crossed, but by accounts its was supposed to be a Cena wins the battle, but Brock wins the war sort of thing. So a bit different from that, but i didnt see an issue with it.

[edgecrusher]

Also the way Alverez goes on about how that match should have been books as though he is some kind of booking expert was really grating. What is his wrestling background exactly? How many successful angles has he booked? Isn't he just a wrestling journalist?

 

I'm 99% certain that this is the exact response Vince Russo has when anyone criticizes his booking.

 

I'd hazard a guess that Bryan's spent a lot longer looking at wrestling - and thus seeing things which do and don't work - than most of the people in WWE's current writing department. He's in no way saying 'I have this great idea' he's saying 'book Lesnar the way I've seen big monster guys booked hundreds of times before leading to massive money'.

 

But you know, it surely won't work if it's booked that way because it worked before. Or something.

[spurs 4 life]

I conveniently left it out because conveniently Brock Lesnar hasn't even been in pro-wrestliing in the last four years, let alone been the biggest draw in the business. Unless I'm forgetting something?

 

Is Georges Saint Pierre the second biggest draw in pro-wrestling over the last few years?

 

If what he has done in the last 4 years has nothing to do with Pro wrestling and it's audience why has he just got given what i'm sure i've read is the best contract in WWE history?

 

I'm sure none of it matters because Cena/Rock apart WWE seems determined to make sure nothing matters long term but Alverez is right even if he has gone into hyperbole about it. Why would you pay someone millions and millions of pounds and then beat him straight away? Makes no sense, surely you want to make him losing matter as much as possible and for that to happen he has to win a load.

 

I loved the main event and i enjoyed the angle on RAW but i still see why Alverez is frustrated. The potential for Rock trying to take on an unstoppable Brock at mania was huge.

[The Brain]

Also the way Alverez goes on about how that match should have been books as though he is some kind of booking expert was really grating. What is his wrestling background exactly? How many successful angles has he booked? Isn't he just a wrestling journalist?

 

I'm 99% certain that this is the exact response Vince Russo has when anyone criticizes his booking.

 

I'd hazard a guess that Bryan's spent a lot longer looking at wrestling - and thus seeing things which do and don't work - than most of the people in WWE's current writing department. He's in no way saying 'I have this great idea' he's saying 'book Lesnar the way I've seen big monster guys booked hundreds of times before leading to massive money'.

 

But you know, it surely won't work if it's booked that way because it worked before. Or something.

 

Alvarez has been writing his newsletter for 15+ years. He has watched a variety of promotions world wide for many years. He hangs out with Meltzer. He has worked 100's of wrestling shows. He is a BJJ Purple Belt. His opinions to me are quite valid on the whole and I think he is knowledgeable to a point and most often puts up a decent argument when he rants.

 

He will never be Big Dave though.

[edgecrusher]

No he won't be Big Dave. Who also thinks the ending was shit.

 

He may not have been as critical as Bryan, but it was pretty damn obvious he agrees 100% that they blew a ton of money with this ending and that it almost certainly hurt Lesnar (especially clear if you listen to the radio shows as well as read the newsletter).

[NEWM]

Edgecrusher, out of interest, did you like the match?

[The Brain]

No he won't be Big Dave. Who also thinks the ending was shit.

 

He may not have been as critical as Bryan, but it was pretty damn obvious he agrees 100% that they blew a ton of money with this ending and that it almost certainly hurt Lesnar (especially clear if you listen to the radio shows as well as read the newsletter).

 

I shall be reading this weeks WON tonight when I get home from prison work. Out of interest how many snowflakes did Meltzer rate the main event?

[King Pitcos]

I'm sure none of it matters because Cena/Rock apart WWE seems determined to make sure nothing matters long term but Alverez is right even if he has gone into hyperbole about it. Why would you pay someone millions and millions of pounds and then beat him straight away? Makes no sense, surely you want to make him losing matter as much as possible and for that to happen he has to win a load.

How many Lesnar losses would matter more than one against wrestling's biggest star John Cena in big Brock's first proper wrestling match in eight years? Lesnar acts too good for wrestling and he made out the WWE's top man would be an easy win for him. If he'd won and thus vindicated himself, it makes wrestling and Cena look inferior. As it is, Brock came back with a wave of hype and had a match that made Cena -- and consequently, wrestling itself -- look more legitimate and on his level.

 

And let's be honest, UKFF, every single one of the divots going "waa they've blown money, Lesnar should have had a Goldberg streak" is really just trying to put a new ribbon on the same anti-Cena, anti-WWE turd they've all been pushing out of their arsemouths for years. They're upset not because of their impeccable knowledge of how to draw money in wrestling (the CM Punk flop has shown they haven't a clue), but because John Cena, the guy they hate, won. And they would only be happy if Heyman-guy Lesnar lost to one of the pullpud-approved "workers."

 

Now let's say Lesnar came in and had the undefeated streak that the wankwanks want him to have. He has four or five matches over the course of the year. He crushes Cena, Triple H, Orton and Sheamus and goes to WrestleMania to fight The Rock. Now it's debatable as to whether those four wins would make any odds to the buyrate anyway (as it'd largely be hyped on UFC megastar vs Hollywood megastar regardless of wrestling win-loss records), but what kind of long-term sense is there in a part-timer crushing three or four of your full-time stars, including the face of the company, just to build up to a match with another part-timer? It cuts both ways. There are arguments to be had about most wrestling booking, including the Extreme Rules main event, but making out it's a full-stop fact that (lolSuper)Cena winning is bad business is the sole preserve of the dirtsheep retards.

 

So let's just be honest and admit that we're happy or sad because the guy we were rooting for won or lost. Don't make out it's because WWE has failed in some objective "Booking 101" (give him a manager, push the cruisers) class. For me, the finish was perfect. It was a fantastic climax to the match, made perfect sense within the story, and was redemptive, compelling and surprising. And it upset a load of thick, smelly virgins.

 

[DJ Kris]

I miss the unpredictability, the feeling that "anything can happen..." and on Sunday night I fully expected Brock Lesner to pick up the win, I didn't expect him to be as dominant as he was, I never expected him to wipe the floor with John Cena as much as he did, so WWE suprised me with the direction of the match and with the outcome. Then the following night on Raw I was shocked to see Brock look like he legitimately broke Triple H's arm. I become engrossed and enjoyed all of it. For those reason I can't agree with anyone saying they're doing the wrong thing, because they're actually achieving what they're supposed to, entertaining viewing!

[The Brain]

I miss the unpredictability, the feeling that "anything can happen..." and on Sunday night I fully expected Brock Lesner to pick up the win, I didn't expect him to be as dominant as he was, I never expected him to wipe the floor with John Cena as much as he did, so WWE suprised me with the direction of the match and with the outcome. Then the following night on Raw I was shocked to see Brock look like he legitimately broke Triple H's arm. I become engrossed and enjoyed all of it. For those reason I can't agree with anyone saying they're doing the wrong thing, because they're actually achieving what they're supposed to, entertaining viewing!

 

From our perspective yes, but from there POV they live and die by the ratings; which went up as well to a 3.3 this week I think. Some of that may be down to curiosity from people who heard about the PPV finish etc.

 

Let's see if they can keep it up.