Monday Night Raw 27/2/12 *SPOILERS*

[BiffingtonClyro]

And both for good reason. Although nutter Duane never came out with anything as bas as "popcorn farts."

 

I really don't understand how people can hate The Rock so much. He is a guy that has the fans in the palm of his hands. He is what John Cena wants to be. Cena is quite obviously money, but not on the same level as The Rock.

[PowerButchi]

A lot of it for me I suppose is that I've moved on from what I liked when I was younger. I just don't find The Rock funny, cool, nor interesting these days. In the past I would have happily sat through him rambling for 30 minutes because it was the Rock and the Rock is cool. Only I don't think he's cool. Shit, wrestling's not even cool anymore so it makes him look like an even bigger dweeb going to it and going on about fucking chinese food as an insult. These days I'm far more a John Cena kind of guy, than liking the cocky abrasive Rock going on about nothing and making little sense.

 

For all his fruity pebbles stuff aimed at Cena, he's been far worse for my tastes. Mangina, you've got no balls, all that kind of thing. Why doesn't he just call him a bender next week, or a pranny? It doesn't come off as super cool and awesome to me. Just as a man touching 40 being a manchild chucking out junior school insults in an attempt to look suave and edgy, and it's really not for me anymore.

 

So yeah, that's why I hate him these days.

[BiffingtonClyro]

Butch, I actually used to hate the Rock when he was doing his shit routines back in the day. I felt on Monday however he answered every Cena diss with great panache. He had "It" , that intangible that has been missing, that absolutely beautiful control of the crowd, that I haven't seen since Hogan WM 17.

 

Fucking terrific performer. Absolute respect for the guy. Who has matched his response from the crowd in recent years? Nobody. Last years CM Punk angle seems like midcard bullshit in comparison, if that.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The Hulksters announced himself as a member of Team Cena. Thats all I give a fuck about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=406aTQtklM8...748FAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Hogan always seems to talk more sense when he's talking about WWE, than TNA.

[Magnum]

I think the reason Cena's promo is getting favourable comparisons is because it was shorter and more focused. The main problem with The Rock's is that it went on for 20 minutes, and consequently dragged. If the roles were reversed, Cena may not have gone on about Twitter so much, but he may well have thrown in a few shite Jersey Shore references or Gary Coleman gags. When it comes to filling out long promos, Cena's as bad as anyone for coming out with cringeworthy bollocks, as he's proved plenty of times in the last 5 or 6 years.

 

With all that said, I still stand by my position that it was a good promo overall simply because of the crowd reaction it got. You could send two wrestlers out there with the best lines David Simon has ever written, and it'd mean nothing because a live crowd would shit all over it - meanwhile The Rock can go out there with twenty minutes of nonsense and get reactions like the last anodyne decade of wrestling never happened.

 

I get what Butch says, but I think I'm sort of on the opposite side of the fence in that watching The Rock do his thing again makes me feel like I'm back in my teens when wrestling just seemed fun and spontaneous. And I do still think he comes off as cool, even when doing his Mr Motivator patter or talking about takeaway food. He's just got an easy charisma that only real stars have. I'll always cheer him over Cena, whose whole act just seems forced to me, and still looks like a twat in his jean shorts, stupid cap and oversized t-shirt - I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't find him relatable.

[King Pitcos]

A lot of it for me I suppose is that I've moved on from what I liked when I was younger. I just don't find The Rock funny, cool, nor interesting these days. In the past I would have happily sat through him rambling for 30 minutes because it was the Rock and the Rock is cool. Only I don't think he's cool. Shit, wrestling's not even cool anymore so it makes him look like an even bigger dweeb going to it and going on about fucking chinese food as an insult. These days I'm far more a John Cena kind of guy, than liking the cocky abrasive Rock going on about nothing and making little sense.

 

For all his fruity pebbles stuff aimed at Cena, he's been far worse for my tastes. Mangina, you've got no balls, all that kind of thing. Why doesn't he just call him a bender next week, or a pranny? It doesn't come off as super cool and awesome to me. Just as a man touching 40 being a manchild chucking out junior school insults in an attempt to look suave and edgy, and it's really not for me anymore.

 

So yeah, that's why I hate him these days.

 

Bang on, Butch. The thing I resent about it as well is that every appearance is serving as a reminder that a lot of the things you loved in the attitude era were actually a bit shit unless you were in your mid-teens and angry at your teachers or parents. Hogan does a cheeseball routine as well when he comes back, but it's nostalgic and camp and it knows it's corny. Rock's is meant to be cool and edgy even now, and all it does is make you think what a tit you must have been at fifteen.

 

It's a proper Emperor's New Clothes thing, because for years it's been "Cena's insults are corny and shit, Rock used to be great at this stuff, I wish he'd come back." And then Rock comes back and his insults are at best on par with the stuff Cena's reviled for coming out with. He's not the saviour everyone thought he'd be. The difference between them isn't ability, it's that we got a bit older in between Rock and Cena's eras, and read more "wrestling's crap, isn't it?" articles whilst waiting for the Triple H-Shawn Michaels feud to end.

 

Rock'll probably get worse as well. He's getting positive reinforcement from crowds who are so happy to see him in the flesh after all these years, they'll go along with his shite. And he comes away thinking "this Twitter hashtag material is going down well, I'll do more of that next time."

 

It's all building interest in the match though, even a rubbish speech from Rock or Cena will give the other ammunition.

[Baz Windham]

I get what Butch says, but I think I'm sort of on the opposite side of the fence in that watching The Rock do his thing again makes me feel like I'm back in my teens when wrestling just seemed fun and spontaneous. And I do still think he comes off as cool, even when doing his Mr Motivator patter or talking about takeaway food. He's just got an easy charisma that only real stars have. I'll always cheer him over Cena, whose whole act just seems forced to me, and still looks like a twat in his jean shorts, stupid cap and oversized t-shirt - I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't find him relatable.

 

The problem for me is he isn't doing his thing again, he's doing a bad impersonation of it. Back in the day a catchphrase would catch on rather than it being forced down your throat with a flashing neon sign saying "this is my new funny." It comes across a bloke to me trying to regain something he has moved on from, which he is prefectly entitled to do and he never had to come back, especially in the role he's in now. I think at the minute The Rock's act is the forced one rather than Cena's, Cena can go overboard nicey nicey in certain feuds but certainly not here and The Rock's comedy seems anything but spontaneous.

 

The Rock was on a slippery slope for me the minute he opened his mouth last Feb and said "let me speak as Dwayne Johnson", then started The Rock schtick, it just made me go "woah, what?" and it felt and looked really weird. His promos since have largely been this weird hybrid of "love this business" Dwayne and "Lol no balls" Rock. If he had just come back as the latter and not spliced with the former the funny stuff might not have come off as such a forced impersonation. I probably still wouldn't have found it funny but it wouldn't have gave me this weird feeling of being slapped in the face with reality and characters, as evidenced by his strange Rock/Dwayne Johnson schizo bit after Cena left on Monday. He did have the crowd yeah, no one can deny that but I still think it's nothing like The Rock of old, obviously I can't speak for anyone but i'd imagine some on the nostalgia trip are beggining to notice too.

[tiger_rick]

A lot of it for me I suppose is that I've moved on from what I liked when I was younger. I just don't find The Rock funny, cool, nor interesting these days. In the past I would have happily sat through him rambling for 30 minutes because it was the Rock and the Rock is cool. Only I don't think he's cool. Shit, wrestling's not even cool anymore so it makes him look like an even bigger dweeb going to it and going on about fucking chinese food as an insult. These days I'm far more a John Cena kind of guy, than liking the cocky abrasive Rock going on about nothing and making little sense.

 

For all his fruity pebbles stuff aimed at Cena, he's been far worse for my tastes. Mangina, you've got no balls, all that kind of thing. Why doesn't he just call him a bender next week, or a pranny? It doesn't come off as super cool and awesome to me. Just as a man touching 40 being a manchild chucking out junior school insults in an attempt to look suave and edgy, and it's really not for me anymore.

 

So yeah, that's why I hate him these days.

 

Bang on, Butch. The thing I resent about it as well is that every appearance is serving as a reminder that a lot of the things you loved in the attitude era were actually a bit shit unless you were in your mid-teens and angry at your teachers or parents. Hogan does a cheeseball routine as well when he comes back, but it's nostalgic and camp and it knows it's corny. Rock's is meant to be cool and edgy even now, and all it does is make you think what a tit you must have been at fifteen.

 

It's a proper Emperor's New Clothes thing, because for years it's been "Cena's insults are corny and shit, Rock used to be great at this stuff, I wish he'd come back." And then Rock comes back and his insults are at best on par with the stuff Cena's reviled for coming out with. He's not the saviour everyone thought he'd be. The difference between them isn't ability, it's that we got a bit older in between Rock and Cena's eras, and read more "wrestling's crap, isn't it?" articles whilst waiting for the Triple H-Shawn Michaels feud to end.

 

Rock'll probably get worse as well. He's getting positive reinforcement from crowds who are so happy to see him in the flesh after all these years, they'll go along with his shite. And he comes away thinking "this Twitter hashtag material is going down well, I'll do more of that next time."

 

It's all building interest in the match though, even a rubbish speech from Rock or Cena will give the other ammunition.

Thirded. I said this ages ago when Cena's poopy act was getting a (deserved) kick-in. Always been told by some that Rock's act worked because he was much cooler than Cena. If he was, he ain't now.

[Jewish Darren]

A lot of it for me I suppose is that I've moved on from what I liked when I was younger. I just don't find The Rock funny, cool, nor interesting these days. In the past I would have happily sat through him rambling for 30 minutes because it was the Rock and the Rock is cool. Only I don't think he's cool. Shit, wrestling's not even cool anymore so it makes him look like an even bigger dweeb going to it and going on about fucking chinese food as an insult. These days I'm far more a John Cena kind of guy, than liking the cocky abrasive Rock going on about nothing and making little sense.

 

For all his fruity pebbles stuff aimed at Cena, he's been far worse for my tastes. Mangina, you've got no balls, all that kind of thing. Why doesn't he just call him a bender next week, or a pranny? It doesn't come off as super cool and awesome to me. Just as a man touching 40 being a manchild chucking out junior school insults in an attempt to look suave and edgy, and it's really not for me anymore.

 

So yeah, that's why I hate him these days.

 

Bang on, Butch. The thing I resent about it as well is that every appearance is serving as a reminder that a lot of the things you loved in the attitude era were actually a bit shit unless you were in your mid-teens and angry at your teachers or parents. Hogan does a cheeseball routine as well when he comes back, but it's nostalgic and camp and it knows it's corny. Rock's is meant to be cool and edgy even now, and all it does is make you think what a tit you must have been at fifteen.

 

It's a proper Emperor's New Clothes thing, because for years it's been "Cena's insults are corny and shit, Rock used to be great at this stuff, I wish he'd come back." And then Rock comes back and his insults are at best on par with the stuff Cena's reviled for coming out with. He's not the saviour everyone thought he'd be. The difference between them isn't ability, it's that we got a bit older in between Rock and Cena's eras, and read more "wrestling's crap, isn't it?" articles whilst waiting for the Triple H-Shawn Michaels feud to end.

 

Rock'll probably get worse as well. He's getting positive reinforcement from crowds who are so happy to see him in the flesh after all these years, they'll go along with his shite. And he comes away thinking "this Twitter hashtag material is going down well, I'll do more of that next time."

 

It's all building interest in the match though, even a rubbish speech from Rock or Cena will give the other ammunition.

Thirded. I said this ages ago when Cena's poopy act was getting a (deserved) kick-in. Always been told by some that Rock's act worked because he was much cooler than Cena. If he was, he ain't now.

I think that the fact that there has been a year build up to this, is slightly ironic, as the very thing that The Rock is berating Cena over, is how I feel about the whole match. It has been shoved down our throats.

 

Far more excited about the Taker - HHH match!

[Chest Rockwell]

I get what Butch says, but I think I'm sort of on the opposite side of the fence in that watching The Rock do his thing again makes me feel like I'm back in my teens when wrestling just seemed fun and spontaneous. And I do still think he comes off as cool, even when doing his Mr Motivator patter or talking about takeaway food. He's just got an easy charisma that only real stars have. I'll always cheer him over Cena, whose whole act just seems forced to me, and still looks like a twat in his jean shorts, stupid cap and oversized t-shirt - I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't find him relatable.

 

 

I could totally understand not finding John Cena relatable or just thinking he is a twat... but I find the 'forced' accusation hard to understand. Cena is totally living his gimmick. He is an absolute earnest cornball all-american, who probably idolises Superman. He's a massive dork and a really really nice guy. This is why I both love and hate him.

[Magnum]

I get what Butch says, but I think I'm sort of on the opposite side of the fence in that watching The Rock do his thing again makes me feel like I'm back in my teens when wrestling just seemed fun and spontaneous. And I do still think he comes off as cool, even when doing his Mr Motivator patter or talking about takeaway food. He's just got an easy charisma that only real stars have. I'll always cheer him over Cena, whose whole act just seems forced to me, and still looks like a twat in his jean shorts, stupid cap and oversized t-shirt - I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't find him relatable.

 

 

I could totally understand not finding John Cena relatable or just thinking he is a twat... but I find the 'forced' accusation hard to understand. Cena is totally living his gimmick. He is an absolute earnest cornball all-american, who probably idolises Superman. He's a massive dork and a really really nice guy. This is why I both love and hate him.

 

Well, in the longer term, it's the 'underdog/everyman' schtick that came across phoney to me, because it's just as easy to see him as Vince's golden boy. And I know it's an old criticism which probably seems redundant these days, but doing the serious act while STILL decked out in all his own brightly-coloured merchandise will always be hard for me to buy into. I think when I first got back into wrestling after my initial period of 'growing out of it', the fact that the likes of the nWo, Austin and even Bret started to look like real people in their jeans, black t-shirts and leather jackets really helped in adding an air of reality to it. I just can't take a 36 year-old man in that baggy, early-90s-sitcom-teenager getup seriously, even in a business where men pretend to fight in their underwear.

[ColinBollocks]

Raw did a 3.14 rating. The overrun was an average gain/number and actually lost 349,000 viewers when Cena came out and The Rock closed. Quite a surprise.

[PowerButchi]

Herb Meltz' theory on that.

 

What did happen is a sizeable number of people tuned out while Cena did the promo, about 349,000, for the last six minutes of the show. It wasn

[Dirty Eddie]

With all that said, I still stand by my position that it was a good promo overall simply because of the crowd reaction it got. You could send two wrestlers out there with the best lines David Simon has ever written, and it'd mean nothing because a live crowd would shit all over it - meanwhile The Rock can go out there with twenty minutes of nonsense and get reactions like the last anodyne decade of wrestling never happened.

 

I get what Butch says, but I think I'm sort of on the opposite side of the fence in that watching The Rock do his thing again makes me feel like I'm back in my teens when wrestling just seemed fun and spontaneous. And I do still think he comes off as cool, even when doing his Mr Motivator patter or talking about takeaway food. He's just got an easy charisma that only real stars have. I'll always cheer him over Cena, whose whole act just seems forced to me, and still looks like a twat in his jean shorts, stupid cap and oversized t-shirt - I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't find him relatable.

 

Yeah, I agree with all of that from Magnum.

 

A lot of people who praise Cena use the argument that (whatever you think of his character or his material) he always gets a reaction from the fans, whether positive or negative. I agree that Rock's material on RAW was pretty f'n weak, but just listen to the reaction he got. If you are good enough to stand out there and say next to nothing for 20 minutes and STILL you have them chanting your every word and loving every minute, then it's a bloody good promo. Rock absolutely got a "reaction", but not just that, he got a completely positive reaction, something Cena can never manage.

 

Besides, I'm sure both him and Cena are just warming up at the minute anyway. You don't do the "talk the people into the building", super-intense promo with weeks to go, you do it with days to go. I'm sure both will have better promos before Mania.

 

Rock is clearly having to hold back with his "shoot" comments anyway. What exactly is he supposed to say... "well John, I left Wrestling because essentially pro wrestling is a laughing stock and most normal people think wrestlers are all total idiots. I got past that because I'm so great and have actual acting talent and now the "real world" thinks I'm great. Oh and I make way, way more than you for a fraction of the work and I'm far, far more famous". He can't possibly emphasize the real reason he left wrestling because it would just make the whole WWE sound shit.

 

One thing I can't understand though is how anyone can see Cena as being "cooler" than The Rock. You might think he works harder, or is a nicer bloke or whatever, but there is no way in hell that he looks or acts anywhere near as cool as Rocky. You see Rock at a premier in a suit and he looks the fucking Man, while Cena looks like a bad movie-henchman, all uncomfortable and awkward. Even in wrestling circles Rock generally dresses well, while Cena has his weird 90s teenager look going on.

[PowerButchi]

Neither of them are cool. Rocky is nearly 40 and wears Aribas two stripe joggers and acts like he's 7, and John Cena looks like an extra from Daria. Cena seems sounder. That does it for me.