Women's Wrestling: A Critique

[Carbomb]

whoa whoa, Jay Lethal is cool.

 

No, he's not. He's boring as sin, sounds lame on the mike and has a barely comprehensible gimmick (what the fuck is he supposed to be?). He's certainly not cool - during his feud with The Shore, I thought Robbie E, who's a fucking American chav, FFS, came across as being cooler and more aware than he did. Lethal just came across as a hayseed.

 

He's an incredibly frustrating wrestler, because he gave all the signs he'd learned from the Black Machismo gimmick and was going to be better to watch, and instead he's bloody regressed.

 

Come on, even after that segment with Ric Flair?!

 

Nah, to be honest I agree with you somewhat. I was never a big fan of the Black Machismo gimmick and always wanted them to just drop it. Problem is, when he eventually did drop it, Lethal also seemed to drop pretty much all of his personality. It made me realise how much I actually LIKED Black Machismo in hindsight. The stuff with Ric Flair was golden, but that was mainly due to Lethal's apparent talent at impressions.

 

I always thought they should've turned him heel at the height of the Black Machismo gimmick, saying that he's sick of portraying another man's character or some shit.

 

I should've included the Flair-Off within the last period of him being interesting. It was exactly after the Flair feud that he went to shit. It almost feels like he thought "right, I've done it, I'm an evolved character now, I can just be me", when he's anything but. I find it bizarre that a guy who's so charismatic with his mimicry can't carry it over to expressing his real personality.

[King Pitcos]

I've always thought ODB was a decent character as well, I certainly preferred her to Gail Kim, Awesome Kong and Taylor Wilde at the time.

 

Now hold on - there's plenty of decent cruiserweight wrestling out there that's as good as any heavyweight stuff. And I'm not talking about the spotmonkeys or workraters either.

But I mean stuff that's distinctly cruiserweight division. There's a subsection that will always rave about little lads doing backflips, regardless of how good it actually is. Can you name half a dozen cruiserweight matches (that either happened or realistically could have happened) that could conceivably have main-evented proper pay-per-views?

 

 

As to the quality of women's wrestling, the answer is simple: if, as a promoter, you're bothered about improving match quality, you've got to hire women who are not necessarily going to look like models. Personally, I think the best female wrestler ever, in terms of both charisma, character AND match ability was Sensational Sherri. She could look clinical, vicious and sexy all in one go.

 

I don't think they are, but if WWE were bothered, they'd have to employ women in the mould of Sherri or Alundra Blayze, not Kelly Kelly or Alisha Fox.

I think it's a catch-22. I couldn't see people really backing someone as plain-looking as Alundra Blayze now, so the intended "match quality" would fall flat.

 

I can only assume that "proper wrestling" involves being John Cena

I doubt it. Cena can't wrestle a lick, he's only on top because he sells t-shirts to kiddies and EV 1.0 bums bodybuilders. No wonder we can't see you, John, you're probably hiding on the bearskin rug.

 

I was going to defend it by saying it's more genuine as well, since I assumed people who love the women's wrestling aren't just following what Da Meltz has told them to like. But if Vito's post about the snowflakes is accurate and the SHIMMER type stuff is highly spoken of in The Observer and equivalents, then I can't even say that.

Meltzer doesn't cover SHIMMER; the ***** ratings Vito mentioned as being awarded to womens bouts were all for early-mid 90s AJW stuff.

My apologies. Through no fault of Vito's, I assumed it was recent and about the same kind of women wrestlers that AJSnumbers and them like. Fair play, it's better to be blindly led by your penis than by a newsletter subscription.

 

So he's taking an elite example as proof that most other women athletes don't have to train for a long time to win gold?

 

Wow.

Well it's the same way that Brock Lesnar proves men's MMA is shit.

 

Generally speaking the TNA girls are a bit better at this than the WWE, where they laden these poor anorexic models with the most bizarre moves that look like they've come out of Sonjay Dutt's playbook.

Blame Lita. The only reason we all loved her was the way she looked and that she did some flippy moves. I don't think she ever really learned much else, and it seems WWE give the girls now a few "flashy" moves to try and fast-track them the way Lita became mega-popular in such a short time.

 

she isnt as bad as some but her voice really grates on me

That's fairly harsh. Very few notable woman in wrestling haven't had a disgusting voice.

[air_raid]

My thoughts on it all are fairly simple. Very few Western women wrestlers I've watched have been able to do the mechanics/physicality side of pro wrestling to the degree I've found the matches watchable. The odd one or two I've found OK such as Madusa/Alundra Blayze, Victoria/Tara, Gail Kim, Japan-trained Kong.

 

Of course the decent matches are few and far between because it takes two to tango, but sometimes I can ignore the odd botch, daylight on the forearms or sloppy work if I care about either the storyline or the wrestler makes me care about the result.

 

Trish Stratus and Lita were neither especially good technique wise but were decent enough babyfaces for me to get into their matches, and storylines I have enjoyed have meant I have been more than happy to watch the match if only to see if the result was what I was hoping for. For instance I quite liked the Beautiful People (original Sky/Love heel line-up) act and was keen to see babyfaces lamp them, even though their matches were gash.

 

These days there are very seldom lady wrestlers who either have either enough magnetism to make me care about them winning or want to see them lose, or decent enough storylines to draw me in and make me follow the storyline to conclusion. Is that because of a derth of real talent or lazy booking? Probably a bit of both.

 

That's fairly harsh. Very few notable woman in wrestling haven't had a disgusting voice.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I always considered listening to Sunny flirting with/hitting on any male personalities or telling us what Sunny wants Sunny gets, something akin to a wank for the ears.

[King Pitcos]

But Lita/Chyna/Stephanie (although hers was put on)/Sable were more like rape of the ears.

[Carbomb]

Now hold on - there's plenty of decent cruiserweight wrestling out there that's as good as any heavyweight stuff. And I'm not talking about the spotmonkeys or workraters either.

But I mean stuff that's distinctly cruiserweight division. There's a subsection that will always rave about little lads doing backflips, regardless of how good it actually is. Can you name half a dozen cruiserweight matches (that either happened or realistically could have happened) that could conceivably have main-evented proper pay-per-views?

 

"Name six - that'll fix him!"

 

In seriousness, though, it depends what you mean by "distinctly cruiserweight division". If you're talking about the flippity-floppity style, then yeah, I suppose it's not great for the main events, but that's more about the quality of the worker involved rather than the actual style of wrestling. Take Rey, for example: not popular right now, I'll admit, but he can work a high-flying style perfectly for the main event, and I daresay him vs. Michaels (thanks Cleetus!) or vs. Jericho at The Bash would've been perfectly cromulent main events (let's be honest, Michaels and Jericho are cruisers really).

 

I can't name six, but that's more down to my memory not being brilliant, to be honest. I'm sure if I went through a list I could point out a few.

 

Unless you mean "any matches billed as specifically CW are automatically seen as inferior to HW"? In which case, I'd agree.

[King Pitcos]

Well yeah, I was gonna mention Michaels and Jericho as cruiserweights who seem to have done their best to avoid being seen as cruiserweights for most of their careers. I'm talking about the first hour of Nitro type shit. Psicosis, Super Crazy, Paul London. The wrestlers who the "push the cruisers!" knobs think should be world champions.

[Carbomb]

Well yeah, I was gonna mention Michaels and Jericho as cruiserweights who seem to have done their best to avoid being seen as cruiserweights for most of their careers. I'm talking about the first hour of Nitro type shit. Psicosis, Super Crazy, Paul London. The wrestlers who the "push the cruisers!" knobs think should be world champions.

 

It's an odd one, really. In a sense, CWs will never main event, because the moment a cruiser proves to be good enough to main event, he's moved out of the division and is no longer referred to as a cruiser (obviously, I'm talking States-side here - Japan has had plenty of junior heavyweight mains). So in a sense, I suppose it could be said the CW division is, by definition, where the less talented, smaller wrestlers go.

[air_raid]

But Lita/Chyna/Stephanie (although hers was put on)/Sable were more like rape of the ears.

 

Yeah. What made Sable worse wasn't just the sound of her voice, but her delivery, which ranged from monotonous/disinterested to OTT cheesy overacting to just plain terrible. Her acceptance of Luna's challenge for the evening gown match on the post WMXIV Raw, for example, is cringe-worthy.

[Big Benny HG]

In somewhat of a related news item, taken from this week's Wrestling Observer:

 

Tajiri

[Magnum]

But Lita/Chyna/Stephanie (although hers was put on)/Sable were more like rape of the ears.

 

Yeah. What made Sable worse wasn't just the sound of her voice, but her delivery, which ranged from monotonous/disinterested to OTT cheesy overacting to just plain terrible. Her acceptance of Luna's challenge for the evening gown match on the post WMXIV Raw, for example, is cringe-worthy.

 

All of these are true, but I think ODB is the worst of the lot. Judging by the amount of people I normally agree with praising her in this thread, it seems my hatred of her may be irrational, and I'm sure it has even more to do with her voice than the fact she's impossible to wank over. I just find her nonsensical, guttural screaming every time she gets the mic and stupid over-emphasis on the wrong words about the most annoying thing in wrestling.

[Loki]

I don't think it's irrational, Magnum. I completely understand why Eddie and you don't like her. It's just that her character annoys you, it's personal taste.

[The King Of Swing]

In somewhat of a related news item, taken from this week's Wrestling Observer:

 

Tajiri

[The Dart]

In somewhat of a related news item, taken from this week's Wrestling Observer:

 

Tajiri

[IANdrewDiceClay]

In somewhat of a related news item, taken from this week's Wrestling Observer:

 

Tajiri

[air_raid]

What with Eric Bischoff's using a Japan angle to inspire his greatest creation in WCW, I REALLY REALLY hope TNA decides to take this idea on board as a viable business expanding direction. TNA could really benefit from this.

 

Tessmacher booked to lose a "loser shows their bare arse" bout?