Loki Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 There is precedent for good women's division booking though - the first 12 months or so of the TNA Knockouts division was incredible. The Gail Kim v Kong feud was the best thing on tv across both companies, and Gail Kim was essentially TNA's biggest face. They were pulling in the best ratings, and their matches were of a consistently really high standard. Â I suspect it's related to who's the road agent in charge of the division, personally. If you remember when Fit Finlay was booking/laying out the WWE women's division, the quality improved hugely, and the Knockout division was initially booked by Scott D'Amore. That would suggest to me at least that there's a lack of experience amongst the majority of modern female wrestlers such that a good road agent who helps them lay out their matches properly improves the product hugely.
Paid Members martyngnr Posted June 16, 2011 Paid Members Posted June 16, 2011 For me wrestling is about passion and the best matches I've ever seen were the ones where the performers convince me that winnng the match is the most important thing in the world. The problem with a lot of womens matches, especially on WWE and TNA programming, is that matches lack the fire and intensity to make me believe that what I'm seeing is real. If I was fighting somebody I hated I wouldn't be throwing weak forearms or trying to pin them with a schoolboy, heels who are about to get their comeuppance should be looking for cheap victories, faces should be looking to deliver the deserved beating that the audience wants to see. Totally agree with this. From the WWE right down to Indy shows in this country most womens matches I've seen have came across as two women "playing at wrestling" rather than being a believable performance under the guise of a legitimate sporting contest.
Vito Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 The problem is that both Kong and Kim had a lot of experience and understood the roles they were supposed to be playing, how can a former model with six months of training and no understanding of the wrestling business possibly go out in front of tens of thousands of people and have a compelling wrestling contest? Paul Heyman was exceptionally skilled at booking wrestlers in a way which complemented their talents and hid their weaknesses, but I doubt even Paul E could do anything with the likes of Kelly Kelly.
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 16, 2011 Paid Members Posted June 16, 2011 Women's wrestling is like cruiserweight wrestling, it's not as good as the proper stuff  Now hold on - there's plenty of decent cruiserweight wrestling out there that's as good as any heavyweight stuff. And I'm not talking about the spotmonkeys or workraters either.   As to the quality of women's wrestling, the answer is simple: if, as a promoter, you're bothered about improving match quality, you've got to hire women who are not necessarily going to look like models. Personally, I think the best female wrestler ever, in terms of both charisma, character AND match ability was Sensational Sherri. She could look clinical, vicious and sexy all in one go.  I don't think they are, but if WWE were bothered, they'd have to employ women in the mould of Sherri or Alundra Blayze, not Kelly Kelly or Alisha Fox.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 16, 2011 Paid Members Posted June 16, 2011 Also I would love to see what would happen if you were to tell Saraya she's shite to her face, lol. I'm glad we'll never get to see what would happen if some of that stuff from your twitter was said in real life.
Vito Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Any kind of wrestling, be it garbage, spotfests, workrate, women, tag team or whatever, is fine by me as long as it's clear that the competitors focus is on winning the match. I don't care if Necro Butcher takes ten piledrivers into a vat of molten glass as long as it's logical and makes sense within the context of the match, if Jack Evans has to do fifty backflips in six minutes, or if Davey Richards has to wrestle for seven hours straight to win the match than that's all that should matter. The only type of match where entertainment should take priority over winning the damn match is comedy matches.
AJS269 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Also I would love to see what would happen if you were to tell Saraya she's shite to her face, lol. I'm glad we'll never get to see what would happen if some of that stuff from your twitter was said in real life. Â Again with the personal attacks Ian, you gonna bring up any other stuff I said 3 months ago or you gonna actually, I dunno, debate? Since this is what you attack me over and over again. Now lets try not to ruin another thread. Â Do you have an argument to counter my points?
Allstar69 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Womens wrestling is shit its like all sport involving women you dont have to be doing it very long to get to the top. Also why the fuck do people bang on about it being wank material, If you watch wrestling to wank there is something wrong with you whats wrong with porn.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 16, 2011 Paid Members Posted June 16, 2011 Do you have an argument to counter my points? I always counter your points you spanner. You just never listen and then trot off editing your posts about 50 times. Just because you have empty opinions and cant put up any argument, doesnt mean I'm in the same boat as you. Â And hows it a personal attack? The stuff I mentioned was posted on the forum and everyone was taking the piss out of you in that thread last week and I never said anything while the written beat down was taking place. I'm just referencing what was posted on the forum, so get your facts straight, please.
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 16, 2011 Paid Members Posted June 16, 2011 its like all sport involving women you dont have to be doing it very long to get to the top. Â Holy fucking Christ.
Allstar69 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 its like all sport involving women you dont have to be doing it very long to get to the top. Â Holy fucking Christ. ok maybe sport was the wrong word but i still stand by what i said
Paid Members Carbomb Posted June 16, 2011 Paid Members Posted June 16, 2011 its like all sport involving women you dont have to be doing it very long to get to the top.  Holy fucking Christ. ok maybe sport was the wrong word but i still stand by what i said  You think that in "all sports involving women", the participants don't have to be doing it very long to get to the top?
theaddicane Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 I would say this, as some people have pointed out, people do have a bias to certain things,its the same as enjoying Indy-Style wrestling or Puroresu, which many people on here think are shite . What annoys me is this constant assumption that its a sexual thing, I can't speak for anyone else, but its not the case with me (wonder how much eye rolling that comments gonna get). Where did all this Workrate Pervert Bullshite come from anyway, what is wrong with wanting to watch Wrestlers, you know, wrestle? Also I think its a bit hypocritical to say all girls are shite at wrestling then go on about how fans of womens wrestling are sexist and give women a pass just cause they are women. I would never say women wrestlers are the greatest in the world but I do think companys like Shimmer are enjoyable. Also I would love to see what would happen if you were to tell Saraya she's shite to her face, lol. Â Well it's a fairly broadly applicable statement that people give female wrestlers a pass for being shit. There can be no case that it's not true, even if it's not true of you. Google around to find many statements of people saying "It's pretty good for a women's match" or someone marking out for the latest popular indie female wrestler and saying that she's "one of the top workers in the world, regardless of sex." Â People do have a bias towards different styles of wrestling, but women's wrestling is not a different style, is it? You get women wrestlers doing a Puro style or an Indy style. It's generally a very poor imitation of that style, too. I just don't sit there and go "I prefer this because it's women doing it". I don't care if it is women or men. I can only fit so much wrestling in so I cut out the shittier part of the spectrum and watch the top stuff, which means stuff like SHIMMER goes out the window. Do I want to watch KENTA doing a Puro style or Eden Black? Well, it's obvious. Anyone who'd pick Eden Black must get some joy out of watching a woman do it that must be tied to her sex, as KENTA is a ton better. Â Finally, if you want to get personal, if I told Sweet Saraya to her face I thought she was shit, she'd probably not care and move on. But I wouldn't, as I've got some fucking social skills and I don't spend my days driving around to wrestling shows to hassle women wrestlers in my Clio that I fucking wish was a female worker's pussy wagon you fat spastic. And just because she's in a wrestling ring throwing shit forearms doesn't mean a 130 pound, 5'6 woman is tough. Â I'd dodge her husband and her knife wielding son, though.
Allstar69 Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 its like all sport involving women you dont have to be doing it very long to get to the top.  Holy fucking Christ. ok maybe sport was the wrong word but i still stand by what i said  You think that in "all sports involving women", the participants don't have to be doing it very long to get to the top? no since I been involved Ice Hockey all my life made semi pro but never fully pro. But a women who never played before could start training with a pro womens team and play for them with ought much training and its the same in a lot of other sports.But i have met some women who are good two women play for my team both England internationals but also on the womens England team are four players that only started playing in the past yr
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