Stewart Lee

[IANdrewDiceClay]

 

[Mr_Danger]

Lee seems like the sort who would feel like a twat for treating someone like a twat so to make amends he carries on treating them like a twat to normalise them being treated like a twat. Treating Herring like a twat is probably the only thing Lee looks back on fondly from his Lee and Herring days. Some people are just twats. 

[IANdrewDiceClay]

This is the interview Herring mentions, for those interested.

Quote

"It seems hard to imagine that we did work together now, given that I haven’t really spoken to Richard, aside from during his podcasts when he would ask me to remember things he had done, this century.

 I understand from his appearances on podcasts that he thinks I didn’t really contribute anything to the double act anyway so I don’t know how or why it worked. I know I wrote some of the material as it was based on my personal experience, opinions, interests, and sad memories of my own family, but he may be right. Certainly my individual popularity and success as a stand-up initially lead to us both being signed by Avalon, but I am not sure that was a very good result for either of us in the end anyway.

 I think there was an adolescent dynamic at work, probably based on how we saw ourselves as teenagers, that limped on into our 20s, but I don’t think there was much more you could have done with it as adults. Certainly there was no financial incentive for me to continue with the double act as on balance the double act lost money because the tours ate up anything else we made in debts to Avalon promotions and everything I made from the 90s was from the stand-up circuit or writing for other people. (After that, Avalon produced Jerry Springer The Opera and lost millions in much the same way) I think I was good at hanging back live and providing Richard with the opportunity to be excessive – he sort of plays chicken with notions of taste – that I would then reign in at the last possible point, like a police dog handler, but I don’t think I was able to transfer over many of the skills I developed in the stand-up.

 I was doing stand-up 5 nights a week for most of the 90s, which was where my heart lay and was always where I saw my future, ever since seeing Ted Chippington at the age of 16. But I tour around the country there is always someone in the merch queue that wants a Fist of Fun book signed so it does seem to be fondly remembered by some older people. I can’t really remember much about it to be honest. I hated the production style of the second series of Fist of Fun and just remember being very stressed by the two live series. The other performers in all of our TV stuff were very good – especially Kevin and Paul and Pete Baynham.

 I am ashamed that I strip-mined my family’s lives for a lot of material in This Morning With Richard Not Judy without thinking what that might feel like. As a parent I understand them better now but they are all dead. The Lee and Herring live dvd was badly produced by Avalon which was a shame as we did sometimes get quite a hysteria going live and that isn’t documented anywhere, although the bit of my stand-up act on that is quite interesting. Rich worked very hard and was very conscientious but I don’t think he had much of an ear for tonality or musicality and wasn’t interested in learning from other practitioners or in finding out about areas of culture outside his immediate sphere, although I think that very insularity might have helped him to consolidate his podcaster character, which has proved an effective and lucrative way for him to maintain both his profile and his independence. I am the opposite. Maybe that was what was good about it. I am glad I had a second chance in life to do things I was happier with. I have been very lucky."

 

[Jazzy G]

It reads like he's being diplomatic. They came together almost as a marriage of convenience, had their run, but were two different people who went in their own directions. He's moved on from it, but Herring wants to acknowledge it because it was a popular thing and it deserves to be remembered. It's possible to do both. 

[Chest Rockwell]

Where is the interview from @IANdrewDiceClay ?

[gmoney]

13 minutes ago, jazzygeofferz said:

It reads like he's being diplomatic. They came together almost as a marriage of convenience, had their run, but were two different people who went in their own directions. He's moved on from it, but Herring wants to acknowledge it because it was a popular thing and it deserves to be remembered. It's possible to do both. 

It's backhanded in the extreme.

[stumobir]

1 minute ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Where is the interview from @IANdrewDiceClay ?

Looks like a live show of the Off Menu podcast.

[Chest Rockwell]

1 minute ago, stumobir said:

Looks like a live show of the Off Menu podcast.

Sorry, I mean the interview with Lee that Ian quoted. Not the original herring clip.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

3 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

8 minutes ago, Chest Rockwell said:

Where is the interview from @IANdrewDiceClay ?

Sorry, I mean the interview with Lee that Ian quoted. Not the original herring clip.

Here you go.

https://www.ledocument.com/issue-eighteen/stewart-lee

[Jazzy G]

25 minutes ago, gmoney said:

It's backhanded in the extreme.

It seems like Fist Of Fun and Todger Merkin Wee Ring Nuts Judy was a means to an end from Stewart Lee's perspective, whereas it was a foot in the door for Richard Herring. There's probably a lot I'm missing. 

[Mr_Danger]

When has Herring said he didn’t think Lee contributed anything to the double act? I’ve heard him talking a little bit disparagingly about him but that was to him in the podcast where Lee wasn’t blotto and there’s always been that bit of needling between them that seemed like a work.

I can take or leave Herring’s stand up, he’s a bit ‘dad telling rude jokes’ so it doesn’t surprise me that Lee doesn’t think he’s developed much as a comedian even if he does pretend he’s saying it in a positive way.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

22 hours ago, Devon Malcolm said:

He was always the Baddiel of that double act, let's be honest.

Its funny watching that stuff back, because Herring looks like he desperately wants to be in that 90s catchphrase comedy Cool Britania circle with Baddiel, Skinner, Vic and Bob and all that lot. Where as Stewart Lee looks uncomfortable and stand-offish when Herring is drinking milk out of a hamsters tits at 1 in the afternoon on a Sunday. And you cant do that shit forever. Even though Herring seemingly tries to.

[Devon Malcolm]

1 minute ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Its funny watching that stuff back, because Herring looks like he desperately wants to be in that 90s catchphrase comedy Cool Britania circle with Baddiel, Skinner, Vic and Bob and all that lot. Where as Stewart Lee looks uncomfortable and stand-offish when Herring is drinking milk out of a hamsters tits at 1 in the afternoon on a Sunday. And you cant do that shit forever. Even though Herring seemingly tries to.

That's probably why it worked so well, but these days you could easily pick out the bits that they respectively put in there. That bit in the first TMWRNJ when they were asking for Seinfeld to be put on at sociable hours was Lee all over.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

6 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

That's probably why it worked so well, but these days you could easily pick out the bits that they respectively put in there. That bit in the first TMWRNJ when they were asking for Seinfeld to be put on at sociable hours was Lee all over.

Absolutely. Think he mentioned the Larry Sanders Show as well, in with that.

[Devon Malcolm]

1 minute ago, IANdrewDiceClay said:

Absolutely. Think he mentioned the Larry Sanders Show as well, in with that.

That's right, he did. I think all the Golden Grahams and Corrs shrine stuff and what have you would have been Herring but stuff like Lazy Comedy Slags and Curious Orange would have been Lee.