Chris Benoit - Will He Ever Be Remembered For His Talent Again?

[Pyrotechnik]

Glitter's Rock n Roll Part 2 song is still played across America at big football and basketball games, as the players enter. Its a song and a half, it has to be said.

 

Thats the yanks for you. I was a great Glitter fan thought he was a great showmen but the day he did what he did he was a scumbag who would never get airtime in my house again. I guess its up to the individual but as i have said Benoit is a scumbag who imo when he killed a child he gave up all rights to be remembered for anything else. As i said its my opinion and i am answering the question put.

 

Can't fault you for your morals, and standing by them. I think at this point the thread has de-evolved into a series of strawman arguments and people picking apart other people's beliefs.

 

Not believing the brain damage cause theory this, and "he was always a violent dickhead apparently" that bits and bobs being thrown in too.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder why these questions are asked, no one seems to actually care what some people's answers are anyway if they don't conform.

[Chris B]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

What utter balls. Who here's doing that? Name one. Name anybody on here who considers just watching his matches to be "putting him as a wrestler first". Nobody's done that - pretty much everyone on here who's stated they can still watch his matches has still acknowledged that what he did was abhorrent by any standard.

 

You've set up a massive straw man there.

 

EDIT: Seems Pyrotechnik and Magnum got there first.

 

Vito's kind of been doing it in this thread, though. I think that's what set a few people off.

 

 

Jimmy Snuka killed his girlfriend and Stone Cole routinely beat his wife but nobody ever brings that up. Anyone who says "Oh, I can't watch Benoit's matches because of what he did" needs to grow up. Athletes, like any other celebrity, are people too and are capable of making mistakes, what Chris Benoit did will never change the fact that he had fantastic wrestling matches, no matter how much people want it to.

The "fact" that he had fantastic wrestling matches will never change what Chris Benoit did, no matter how much people want it to.

You deliberately omitted the most important line in my post, so here it is again with the key point emboldened:

 

the man dedicated his life to his craft and had countless matches that entertained millions and to let all of that slip away because certain individuals can't separate somebodies professional accomplishments from his personal life is very sad.

 

Chris Benoit was a great wrestler who had great matches. I don't care what he did in his private time and neither should anybody else, if you can't look past what he did any enjoy his matches then you need to buck up and stop being such a bleeding vagina.

 

 

 

Jimmy Snuka killed his girlfriend and Stone Cole routinely beat his wife but nobody ever brings that up. Anyone who says "Oh, I can't watch Benoit's matches because of what he did" needs to grow up. Athletes, like any other celebrity, are people too and are capable of making mistakes, what Chris Benoit did will never change the fact that he had fantastic wrestling matches, no matter how much people want it to. The WWE is attempting to erase Chris Benoit from the history books and while I appreciate that they can't be seen to be supporting a murderer it's nothing short of a tragedy that everything Benoit did during his career will eventually be forgotten, the man dedicated his life to his craft and had countless matches that entertained millions and to let all of that slip away because certain individuals can't separate somebodies professional accomplishments from his personal life is very sad.

 

 

 

 

Re: The OJ Simpson comparison, I think it's an unfair comparison. OJ Simpson was part of an ensemble cast, and people watch the overall movie. I don't think anyone's suggesting that people should avoid Wrestlemania's 16-22 because Benoit was on the show, but that specifically going out of your way to watch a Chris Benoit match is a little bit odd.

 

 

I don't think anyone's suggesting that Chris Benoit wasn't a great wrestler. But it is rather like going out of your way to buy a Gary Glitter album (I would say, rather than listening to a cover of a Gary Glitter song).

[RepoMan]

Seeing this topic on the front page with last post by Chris B is really unnerving.

[Pyrotechnik]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

What utter balls. Who here's doing that? Name one. Name anybody on here who considers just watching his matches to be "putting him as a wrestler first". Nobody's done that - pretty much everyone on here who's stated they can still watch his matches has still acknowledged that what he did was abhorrent by any standard.

 

You've set up a massive straw man there.

 

EDIT: Seems Pyrotechnik and Magnum got there first.

 

Vito's kind of been doing it in this thread, though. I think that's what set a few people off.

 

No offence to the guy but I take him with a pinch of salt as a "I post to get reactions" person, have done for years. He does make a point about Stone Cold and Snuka however, you can't be selectivly moral.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

but that specifically going out of your way to watch a Chris Benoit match is a little bit odd.

 

I've gone back and watched certain matches, why? Because they were great matches, and here's the thing people seem to forget about the great matches Benoit was in (I mean the really amazing ones)

 

There's more than just Benoit in it.

 

 

 

Take most of his matches with Jericho or Angle, they put in a fucking brilliant performance too, can you say you can't enjoy watching those two perform just because of who their opponent is? Serious question, not attacking an opinion here.

[Chris B]

Seeing this topic on the front page with last post by Chris B is really unnerving.

 

That's fucking superb. I'm even going to bust out a smiley.

 

Honestly hadn't even occurred to me.

[Chest Rockwell]

Vito's kind of been doing it in this thread, though. I think that's what set a few people off.

 

No offence to the guy but I take him with a pinch of salt as a "I post to get reactions" person, have done for years. He does make a point about Stone Cold and Snuka however, you can't be selectivly moral.

 

 

 

Nah, Vito definitely believes in what he says when he argues something. He's just a bit of drama queen is all.

[David]

Not believing the brain damage cause theory this, and "he was always a violent dickhead apparently" that bits and bobs being thrown in too.

It's a bit strange to not believe in something that has been medically proven though, isn't it?

[Pyrotechnik]

Not believing the brain damage cause theory this, and "he was always a violent dickhead apparently" that bits and bobs being thrown in too.

It's a bit strange to not believe in something that has been medically proven though, isn't it?

 

Go through the thread, people are saying "I don't buy it"

[David]

Not believing the brain damage cause theory this, and "he was always a violent dickhead apparently" that bits and bobs being thrown in too.

It's a bit strange to not believe in something that has been medically proven though, isn't it?

Go through the thread, people are saying "I don't buy it"

Oh yeah, I know they are. It's strange.

[Chris B]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

What utter balls. Who here's doing that? Name one. Name anybody on here who considers just watching his matches to be "putting him as a wrestler first". Nobody's done that - pretty much everyone on here who's stated they can still watch his matches has still acknowledged that what he did was abhorrent by any standard.

 

You've set up a massive straw man there.

 

EDIT: Seems Pyrotechnik and Magnum got there first.

 

Vito's kind of been doing it in this thread, though. I think that's what set a few people off.

 

No offence to the guy but I take him with a pinch of salt as a "I post to get reactions" person, have done for years. He does make a point about Stone Cold and Snuka however, you can't be selectivly moral.

 

 

 

Edit:

 

but that specifically going out of your way to watch a Chris Benoit match is a little bit odd.

 

I've gone back and watched certain matches, why? Because they were great matches, and here's the thing people seem to forget about the great matches Benoit was in (I mean the really amazing ones)

 

There's more than just Benoit in it.

 

 

 

Take most of his matches with Jericho or Angle, they put in a fucking brilliant performance too, can you say you can't enjoy watching those two perform just because of who their opponent is? Serious question, not attacking an opinion here.

 

I don't think I've watched a Benoit match since he died. I may have watched Wrestlemania XX or ECW One Night Stand at some point, but that's about it. I do think that it's a shame that these matches have been kind of wiped from history, but Jericho and Angle are both fantastic wrestlers either way. They've both had loads of really good matches. I don't feel the need to watch those specific matches.

 

Re: Stone Cold/Snuka, they're both slightly different. I stopped being a fan of Stone Cold around that time. I don't know all of the situation there, but I think it was outright cowardly of him to go down the 'no contest' road rather than the 'guilty' road. I'm definitely glad he retired not long afterwards, and it seems like his head is in a better place these days, so I'm less (for want of a better word) angry about it.

 

With the Snuka thing, it's different because he's suspected, and it's been alleged, but it's not definite that he did it. Regardless, I'm not a fan of Snuka anyway (and never really have been), so it's not an issue for me there.

 

It is selective, but I'm pretty sure that had either of them murdered a child, I'm pretty sure the people in the thread would be consistent.

[ClassicsGuy]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

What utter balls. Who here's doing that? Name one. Name anybody on here who considers just watching his matches to be "putting him as a wrestler first". Nobody's done that - pretty much everyone on here who's stated they can still watch his matches has still acknowledged that what he did was abhorrent by any standard.

 

You've set up a massive straw man there.

 

EDIT: Seems Pyrotechnik and Magnum got there first.

 

Guy on the first page of this thread:

 

I still remember him for his talent. My misses asked about him the other day, and my reply was "Best wrestler ever, bit of a nutcase, but best wrestler ever"

 

'Bit of a nutcase', wow, that's some understatement that.

 

Maybe he thinks Adolf Hitler was 'a bit of an oddball', and that Bin Laden was 'a bit too headstrong'.

 

Also Vito:

 

Jimmy Snuka killed his girlfriend and Stone Cole routinely beat his wife but nobody ever brings that up. Anyone who says "Oh, I can't watch Benoit's matches because of what he did" needs to grow up. Athletes, like any other celebrity, are people too and are capable of making mistakes, what Chris Benoit did will never change the fact that he had fantastic wrestling matches, no matter how much people want it to.

The "fact" that he had fantastic wrestling matches will never change what Chris Benoit did, no matter how much people want it to.

You deliberately omitted the most important line in my post, so here it is again with the key point emboldened:

 

the man dedicated his life to his craft and had countless matches that entertained millions and to let all of that slip away because certain individuals can't separate somebodies professional accomplishments from his personal life is very sad.

 

Chris Benoit was a great wrestler who had great matches. I don't care what he did in his private time and neither should anybody else, if you can't look past what he did any enjoy his matches then you need to buck up and stop being such a bleeding vagina.

 

and

 

Jimmy Snuka killed his girlfriend and Stone Cole routinely beat his wife but nobody ever brings that up. Anyone who says "Oh, I can't watch Benoit's matches because of what he did" needs to grow up. Athletes, like any other celebrity, are people too and are capable of making mistakes, what Chris Benoit did will never change the fact that he had fantastic wrestling matches, no matter how much people want it to. The WWE is attempting to erase Chris Benoit from the history books and while I appreciate that they can't be seen to be supporting a murderer it's nothing short of a tragedy that everything Benoit did during his career will eventually be forgotten, the man dedicated his life to his craft and had countless matches that entertained millions and to let all of that slip away because certain individuals can't separate somebodies professional accomplishments from his personal life is very sad.

 

I mean, geez... that's kind of what I'm talking about.

 

Imo anyone who kills a child is a scumbag bottom line, no excuses whatsoever, i cant and wont remember the guy as anything but a wanker. I have not been no angel in my life but there is a line. Gary Glitter was a great entertainer but who would consider listening to his music and forgetting his crimes, nobody i know.

 

Yet they had 1 of his songs on Glee not long ago now.

 

http://www.musicrooms.net/tv/28516-gary-gl...complaints.html

 

Which was kind of my point, the uproar that it caused. Americans aren't aware of the circumstances surrounding him. His name is mud in the U.K. and his songs never get played here. Many Americans thought the IRA was a good deeds charitable course until they were smartened up a few years ago. There are many examples where people aren't aware of the true extent of stuff - that shouldn't be used to justify it.

 

I think some people are getting way too defensive in this thread.

 

My point is that I can't watch his matches now because what he did has sullied them. I get no enjoyment out of them.

I'm struggling to understand how anyone else can and how they can separate the 'artiste' from the killer. There are two valid viewpoints held here, and I am of the opinion of the 'can't separate them' one. That's all. The moral code stuff, well that is reserved for the ones who think it is okay to sideline him being a double murderer.

 

Aspiring would-be wrestlers viewing his work to learn how to be better workers is different from the fanboy hero worship, 'I still get pleasure from watching his matches' stuff. As long as they learn from his stuff and remember not to copy his more dangerous stuff that involved his head taking punishment. Maybe that way, some good will actually come from Benoit.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Incidentally has anyone re-read the Benoit death thread? It's quite the read I must say. We all know about the infamous Philjax post but there are plenty of gems, from JNLister's absolutely embarrassing and hysterical reaction where he wishes cancer on the McMahon family (because Vince only pretended to kill himself, you know) and someone whose name I'm forgetting signing off a post (after the murder stuff was revealed too I think) with "Wolverines do fly... to heaven".

Aye, that was me. There was a few hours separation between my post and finding out about the murders for me. I did look back and consider editing that out, but that was my feeling at the time, when Benoit was simply one of my favourite wrestlers at the time and somewhat inspiring. Obviously not the way I feel now, but I don't see the point in hiding that I did, otherwise every post in that thread would read, "Good riddance, you fucking murdering bastard."

[Loki]

Glitter's Rock n Roll Part 2 song is still played across America at big football and basketball games, as the players enter. Its a song and a half, it has to be said.

 

Thats the yanks for you. I was a great Glitter fan thought he was a great showmen but the day he did what he did he was a scumbag who would never get airtime in my house again. I guess its up to the individual but as i have said Benoit is a scumbag who imo when he killed a child he gave up all rights to be remembered for anything else. As i said its my opinion and i am answering the question put.

 

How do you feel about Led Zeppelin? Jimmy Page picked up a 14 year old girl during an American tour and took her round the rest of the gigs as his fuck buddy. He never went to jail for it, but that's still paedophilia in your eyes, I'd imagine.

[Scott Malbranque]

Glitter's Rock n Roll Part 2 song is still played across America at big football and basketball games, as the players enter. Its a song and a half, it has to be said.

 

Thats the yanks for you. I was a great Glitter fan thought he was a great showmen but the day he did what he did he was a scumbag who would never get airtime in my house again. I guess its up to the individual but as i have said Benoit is a scumbag who imo when he killed a child he gave up all rights to be remembered for anything else. As i said its my opinion and i am answering the question put.

 

How do you feel about Led Zeppelin? Jimmy Page picked up a 14 year old girl during an American tour and took her round the rest of the gigs as his fuck buddy. He never went to jail for it, but that's still paedophilia in your eyes, I'd imagine.

 

Woody Allen and all. His indiscretions were neatly swept under the carpet. I still think Manhattan and Play It Again Sam are classics...

[RepoMan]

Gary Glitter's songs still have some merit, but I've certainly reconsidered my answer to wanting to be in his gang.