Chris Benoit - Will He Ever Be Remembered For His Talent Again?

[Carbomb]

Is it generally accepted now that Benoit was always a maniac then? Was he someone who could be classified as a functioning lunatic, who was always capable of murder?

 

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

[ThePhenom]

Is it generally accepted now that Benoit was always a maniac then? Was he someone who could be classified as a functioning lunatic, who was always capable of murder?

 

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Is it believed that he was like that because of the brain damage, or was he just like that already?

[ClassicsGuy]

I've already posted on the first page, but a few things I'd like to add.

 

- His back catalogue of matches do not 'automatically become crap' because he was a murderer. At the time they took place, his good/very good/excellent matches were regarded as that. In hindsight, are those matches still good? Invariably, yes. Would I personally still like to see any of them? No, for reasons I described - him being a double murderer overrides any pleasure derived from said previous matches. Some things are more important in life than wrestling, and I personally cannot watch someone 'entertain' knowing what they did in their final days.

 

- The excuse offered that concussions led to brain damage that caused him to do what he did - this doesn't wash with me. Plenty of others have suffered concussions from wrestling and they haven't done what Benoit did. Also, as others have mentioned, stories have come out where he was a very strange man long before the 'damage' he sustained. Read the little stories that Jericho tells about him in both of his books. The guy wasn't right in the head long before he did his deeds.

 

- If others can still enjoy his matches knowing what they know happened, that's up to them. It's a free country. If I could use another example though - a certain British Glam Rock star enjoyed big success in the 1970s and part of the 1980s, until the truth came out about him and he was jailed for his crimes. Do people still enjoy his music back catalogue, knowing what they know now? There really can't be that many who do. In my eyes, it's the same deal with Benoit. The actions he undertook, the outcome - they completely override, overshadow any of his previous accomplishments and make them meaningless. Still being able to 'enjoy his matches' depends on your own moral code I suppose, and whether you can still 'hero worship' - which to an extent is what you're doing - a double murderer.

[Carbomb]

Is it generally accepted now that Benoit was always a maniac then? Was he someone who could be classified as a functioning lunatic, who was always capable of murder?

 

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Is it believed that he was like that because of the brain damage, or was he just like that already?

Not sure, but from the sounds of things, it was his determination to be like Dyno that made him do all the stuff that sent him ga-ga - Napoleon Syndrome and all that, taking stupid bumps and chairshots to stand out against the backdrop of big men, etc.

[David]

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Don't you find it a tad suspicious that all of these "stories" about Benoit being a right arsehole seemed to surface after he killed himself? Before that he was regarded as the model professional, loving father and husband.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that he took one too many shots to the dome. He was suffering from mental illness, so I really don't consider him to be the nasty, child-killing fucker that some would like to paint him as.

 

I can't even imagine what he was thinking or feeling just before he topped himself, knowing what he had done.

[Carbomb]

Still being able to 'enjoy his matches' depends on your own moral code I suppose, and whether you can still 'hero worship' - which to an extent is what you're doing - a double murderer.

 

No, it's not. Is enjoying a PG Wodehouse novel "hero-worship" of a Nazi collaborator or enjoying a Mishima Yukio book "hero-worship" of a neo-fascist madman?

 

See, I've no problem with people being unable to enjoy Benoit's matches because of what he did - what I do have a problem with is such people effectively becoming "holier-than-thou" and casting aspersions on others' moral code for not doing likewise.

 

 

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Don't you find it a tad suspicious that all of these "stories" about Benoit being a right arsehole seemed to surface after he killed himself? Before that he was regarded as the model professional, loving father and husband.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that he took one too many shots to the dome. He was suffering from mental illness, so I really don't consider him to be the nasty, child-killing fucker that some would like to paint him as.

 

I can't even imagine what he was thinking or feeling just before he topped himself, knowing what he had done.

 

I agree, but anyone who models themselves after Dyno is definitely heading down a path of self-destruction anyway. Whilst I agree it's suspicious, it's not a stretch of the imagination that someone who idolised Dynamite the way Benoit did MIGHT have based more than just his wrestling style on him.

[Chest Rockwell]

Edit: In response to David's last post

 

I read that story online quite a while before the incident.

 

And there had always been stories.. but as with any story where you don't have all the details, they're open to interpretation as to how things actually went down and they'll all seem somehow sinister in retrospect after what happened.

 

But it doesn't necessarily mean thnat we're now getting the 'true story'; it's same limited information just being viewed through a different filter (by both those telling them first hand and those of us reading them online).

[ClassicsGuy]

Still being able to 'enjoy his matches' depends on your own moral code I suppose, and whether you can still 'hero worship' - which to an extent is what you're doing - a double murderer.

 

No, it's not. Is enjoying a PG Wodehouse novel "hero-worship" of a Nazi collaborator or enjoying a Mishima Yukio book "hero-worship" of a neo-fascist madman?

 

See, I've no problem with people being unable to enjoy Benoit's matches because of what he did - what I do have a problem with is such people effectively becoming "holier-than-thou" and casting aspersions on others' moral code for not doing likewise.

 

Well, that's why there's always a debate when this topic comes up.

 

I make no apologies for what I posted. You can think what you like, again a free country, but I honestly find it a little weird and a little bit creepy that some people still act like 'fan boys' towards a double murderer.

 

Some things are far more important in life, or at least, should be.

[David]

Someone mentioned circumstances being different if he hadn't killed himself, which is mind blowing to think about. He would probably be sentenced to death under US law, wouldn't he? Regardless of his mental state.

[Deaq]

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Don't you find it a tad suspicious that all of these "stories" about Benoit being a right arsehole seemed to surface after he killed himself? Before that he was regarded as the model professional, loving father and husband.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that he took one too many shots to the dome. He was suffering from mental illness, so I really don't consider him to be the nasty, child-killing fucker that some would like to paint him as.

 

I can't even imagine what he was thinking or feeling just before he topped himself, knowing what he had done.

 

All of the 1's I heard was while he was alive and kicking to be fair.

[Magnum]

- If others can still enjoy his matches knowing what they know happened, that's up to them. It's a free country. If I could use another example though - a certain British Glam Rock star enjoyed big success in the 1970s and part of the 1980s, until the truth came out about him and he was jailed for his crimes. Do people still enjoy his music back catalogue, knowing what they know now? There really can't be that many who do. In my eyes, it's the same deal with Benoit. The actions he undertook, the outcome - they completely override, overshadow any of his previous accomplishments and make them meaningless. Still being able to 'enjoy his matches' depends on your own moral code I suppose, and whether you can still 'hero worship' - which to an extent is what you're doing - a double murderer.

 

I fucking love 'Rock and Roll Christmas'. Most DJs (in bars and clubs, as opposed to the radio) still play it on their selection of seasonal cheese around that time of year.

 

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Don't you find it a tad suspicious that all of these "stories" about Benoit being a right arsehole seemed to surface after he killed himself? Before that he was regarded as the model professional, loving father and husband.

 

I'm more inclined to believe that he took one too many shots to the dome. He was suffering from mental illness, so I really don't consider him to be the nasty, child-killing fucker that some would like to paint him as.

 

I can't even imagine what he was thinking or feeling just before he topped himself, knowing what he had done.

 

I think they're stories that are pretty much considered the norm in the carny world of wrestling, which take on a more sinister air when considered retrospectively in light of his eventual actions. In and of themselves, though, they seem par for the course in that environment - non-smarks tend to love JBL and Hardcore Holly in a laddish/ironic way for getting up to the same sort of stuff.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Didn't he used to sit on a preposterously titled 'Smackdown council' with The Undertaker and Bob Holly, judge backstage disputes and humiliate/batter the losers of the disputes? ...That's odd.

[ClassicsGuy]

Well, he certainly wasn't on the right track, put it that way. It emerged after his death that he was a lot more intent on being like the Dynamite Kid than most people thought - he was particularly intense and driven, and not particularly pleasant, if that "Making Daivari do 500 squats 'til he pissed blood" story is anything to go by.

Don't you find it a tad suspicious that all of these "stories" about Benoit being a right arsehole seemed to surface after he killed himself? Before that he was regarded as the model professional, loving father and husband.

 

I don't, because when something like that happens, a lot of introspection goes on, and a lot of people begin thinking about things, considering things and incidents that they hadn't focused on before. They do this as a why of trying to work out 'why' everything happened the way it did.

 

It doesn't mean people are telling lies or making stuff up just to justify him being 'a bad guy'. People often overlook flaws until they're brought more closely into focus.

[Deaq]

Didn't he used to sit on a preposterously titled 'Smackdown council' with The Undertaker and Bob Holly, judge backstage disputes and humiliate/batter the losers of the disputes? ...That's odd.

 

Thats happens in loads of sports and happens in loads of wrestling company's as well. It's a way to haze a new guy or a guy who is pissing everyone off pretty much. Sometimes its just used as a joke with silly outcomes.

[David]

All of the 1's I heard was while he was alive and kicking to be fair.

I may have worded that wrong, so I'll apologise.

 

The same stories being used to highlight Benoit being unstable and nasty now were considered simply part of the goings-on behind the scenes and a sign of Benoit upholding the traditions and respect of pro wrestling beforehand, you know what I mean?

 

For example, everyone looks at Harley Race as a man worthy of respect, and someone who wasn't to be messed with. If he had killed his family those same stories that we read now would be used to suggest that he was really a nasty piece of work all along, wouldn't they?