fraserbee Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again. Â If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator. Â Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted March 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again. Â If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator. Â Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. So...erm...are you trying to suggest people now remember Hitler for his talent?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.PeterVenkman Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again. Â If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator. Â Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. So...erm...are you trying to suggest people now remember Hitler for his talent?! Â Well at least he was better than Benoit at promo's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Some people do, Simmons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again.  If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator.  Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. So...erm...are you trying to suggest people now remember Hitler for his talent?!  Well at least he was better than Benoit at promo's  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraserbee Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again. Â If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator. Â Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. So...erm...are you trying to suggest people now remember Hitler for his talent?! No, that's not what I was suggesting. What I said was that with time, people can despair at someone's actions but still recognise or even be impressed by another skill they may have had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Wrestler`s Wrestler DKJ Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I have heard the same that people are studying Hitler for lessons on how to control (or swerve the masses) depending on which way you look at it, to be a better Politician or motivational speaker. People were outraged when they heard this "How can you study tapes of a MAD MAN" they would say. "As mad as he was, We are using his tactics for good" I guess it comes down to how you JUSTIFY it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 Benoit actually called Hitler the most influencial man ever in a early 99 issue of WCW Magazine. I swear to god. Check it out if you have it. Fair enough he goes on to say, the world doesnt need another Hitler, but still ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexander Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Looking back through that thread, Loki was hitting the "remember the wrestler, not the murderer" stuff pretty hard. Loki, have your views changed in the intervening years? Or do you still pop in that Hard Knocks DVD every few weeks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrotechnik Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Hitler has been praised time and again for having great public speaking skills, as well as a keen military mind... right up until he invaded Russia in the winter. Â That doesn't mean they went "Woah that Hitler, great guy eh?" They just noted that he had talent in certain areas. Â Â Benoit was a talented wrestler, in my mind one of the greatest wrestlers ever, that doesn't mean I condone the man behind the character, or who he was when the spotlights went off and the day clothes came on. Â It worries me that I use to sing his praises, watch tv JUST to see him, counted down the days till he returned from neck surgery and hell even ended up on TV with a get well soon sign. It worries me because I never knew what he was like, only the perception that came across in the media. That's why his death and the murders of his family hit me so goddamn hard personally, it came out of leftfield, and I actually didn't watch wrestling for a long time after that because I simply couldn't fathom it anymore. Took me two years before I watched another show. Â Â As now I can watch his matches, his work with Jericho and Angle, or his tribute to Owen match with Bret Hart. I can even watch Wrestlemania XX again now and yes I enjoy the matches, but I still wince every time I see him do that fucking headbutt. I use to sit on the edge of my seat waiting for that point as a teenager, now I wish he never did it once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Ron Simmons Posted March 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again. Â If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator. Â Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. So...erm...are you trying to suggest people now remember Hitler for his talent?! No, that's not what I was suggesting. What I said was that with time, people can despair at someone's actions but still recognise or even be impressed by another skill they may have had. The thing is though, a lot of people are talking about ENJOYING Benoit's matches. You wouldn't (well...I assume you wouldn't...) talk about enjoying one of Hitler's speeches. Nobody's disputing that Benoit was an extremely talented wrestler. However, much like Hitler's speeches are overriden by that whole war thing, Benoit's wrestling matches are absolutely overshadowed by the fact he killed his wife and 7 year old kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDDUM_N_STYLE Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 i appreciate how much of a good wrestler benoit was, and i can try to enjoy his matches but at the same time i cant forget what he did that fateful weekend and i probably never will. the whole thing could have brought down the wrestling industry and where would we be then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Wrestler`s Wrestler DKJ Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Quote Ron Simmons "The thing is though, a lot of people are talking about ENJOYING Benoit's matches. You wouldn't (well...I assume you wouldn't...) talk about enjoying one of Hitler's speeches. Nobody's disputing that Benoit was an extremely talented wrestler. However, much like Hitler's speeches are overriden by that whole war thing, Benoit's wrestling matches are absolutely overshadowed by the fact he killed his wife and 7 year old kid." Â That is the thing about Hitler and Beniot, Hitler's speeches and Beniot's matches have not been (Overridden or overshadowed) because they are still used today. Be it a person using Hitler's speeches for motivational use or someone using Beniot's matches for intensity and realism. They have been tainted yes no doubt, But thet have not been overridden overshadowed or overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted March 28, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 At the end of the day, there is a fair point to be made that what Benoit did was so terrible and shocking that we should never ever again think of anything he did as a wrestler without shuddering at what he turned into at the very end, that he should be forgotten about completely, that his body of work means jack all. Â There are those of us that think while no one should go out of their to mention or acknowledge Benoit, it's a shame that for example you won't see some of Chris Jericho's best matches on his DVD set (their Rumble ladder match or tag team title victory) because Benoit happened to be in them. There are also those of us who will watch a load of Benoits matches and be able to detach themselves from whats going on in the screen and what eventually happened. Â Justifying that detachment to those people, and thinking why they do that or think its acceptable is an absolute waste of time. How on the other hand is simple - you just have to want to enough. Â Loki, have your views changed in the intervening years? Or do you still pop in that Hard Knocks DVD every few weeks? Â I sure as hell do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejeffjarrettone Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 It certainly is an interesting question, and I believe that yes, in time, people will be able to look at Benoit as a very talented wrestler once again. Â If you think about it, people today study Hitler for his ability to control a huge audience and make them believe in what he was saying. The fact he was responsible for some of the most inhumane acts of the 20th century can, now, be separated from his ability as an orator. Â Incidentally, how good was Benoit really? Ever since I first saw him, back when he first appeared in WCW in 1992 I thought he was really good, and kept that opinion throughout his career. By the time he won the world title in 2004 though, it was obvious to me that he was slipping. He had started to become predictable and he was starting to slow down just a shade. I think he had probably noticed this too and that was a factor in what ended up happening. Â An interesting point, not dissimilar to mine: fixed Germany, hell of a promo guy, still everyone remembers him as a massive cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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