Chris Benoit - Will He Ever Be Remembered For His Talent Again?

[Chris B]

While I know you're not talking about me directly, but I think you've misunderstood me. I'm actually pointing out how ludicrous the link between Hitler and Benoit is, since the argument earlier seemed to be that Hitler can be remembered for his great oration without needing to think about the atrocities he committed. That's ridiculous.

 

The point I made about Benoit wasn't 'you can't enjoy his matches' - I specifically avoided that. What I was talking about was the attitude of 'the fact that he murdered a child isn't important compared to his wrestling ability'. I think that's a stupid thing to say. To be able to say 'I can watch without thinking about it', that's fine. But to attach importance to it like that, and to compare it to how unimportant the death of his son was, is just blatantly bollocks.

 

Yeah, I got that. The only reason I quoted your post was to expand on your point about the Hitler comparison, not to challenge it (I inserted the 'not talking to you directly' only at that particular point simply because the way it was worded looked like I was still addressing the post I quoted).

 

I thought this was probably the case, but also thought it was worth expanding. I wasn't sure if the 'not talking to me directly' meant what you just said or meant not singling me out. Cheers for the classification.

 

 

 

EDIT - actually, this was far too civilised on both our parts to be able to be in this forum and look cool. You cunt.

[Carbomb]

Still being able to 'enjoy his matches' depends on your own moral code I suppose, and whether you can still 'hero worship' - which to an extent is what you're doing - a double murderer.

 

No, it's not. Is enjoying a PG Wodehouse novel "hero-worship" of a Nazi collaborator or enjoying a Mishima Yukio book "hero-worship" of a neo-fascist madman?

 

See, I've no problem with people being unable to enjoy Benoit's matches because of what he did - what I do have a problem with is such people effectively becoming "holier-than-thou" and casting aspersions on others' moral code for not doing likewise.

 

Well, that's why there's always a debate when this topic comes up.

 

I make no apologies for what I posted. You can think what you like, again a free country, but I honestly find it a little weird and a little bit creepy that some people still act like 'fan boys' towards a double murderer.

 

Some things are far more important in life, or at least, should be.

 

Do you think that people who enjoy Benoit matches somehow have ignored or glossed over what he did? Because if that's what you're saying, it's incredibly presumptuous and condescending.

 

As to "some things are far more important in life": again, condescending. Nobody's sacrificing anything from their own life or giving particularly excessive devotion to Benoit by slapping the WMXX triple-threat on the DVD, and who are you to tell other people what "should be" important in life?

[Pyrotechnik]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

 

That's a pretty shitty Strawman.

 

Because people remember his in ring ability, and are all still stating they're very much aware of the end of his life outside of the ring, they're putting it ahead? Give me one person who says "I remember him as a performer, he did awesome matches and that means more to me than the fact he murdered his wife and child" Because chances are you're confusing people putting things in chronological order, with putting them in a level of importance, he didn't murder his wife and kid then go wrestle a chain of **** 1/2 and 5* matches did he?

[knightmare]

Imo anyone who kills a child is a scumbag bottom line, no excuses whatsoever, i cant and wont remember the guy as anything but a wanker. I have not been no angel in my life but there is a line. Gary Glitter was a great entertainer but who would consider listening to his music and forgetting his crimes, nobody i know.

 

Yet they had 1 of his songs on Glee not long ago now.

 

http://www.musicrooms.net/tv/28516-gary-gl...complaints.html

 

Just shows the morals of the world right now.

[David]

If The Rock got drunk after Wrestlemania and crashed into a family of four with his SUV and killed them all would you then erase him from history?

You do realise that such an incident would bear absolutely zero resemblance to the Benoit situation, don't you?

So The Rock kills four people while of not sound mind because of drink and Benoit kills two people while not of sound mind because of being crazy. Both would have made their decisions to do what they did.

The Rock would have made the choice to drink alcohol. Benoit didn't choose to be "crazy", did he?

 

This is an interesting read on the tests run on Benoits brain after he died;

 

Leading medical experts associated with the Sports Legacy Institute appeared Sept. 5 with Michael Benoit, father of professional wrestler Chris Benoit, to release the results of neuropathological tests that demonstrate his son suffered from a type of brain damage called Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), which was found in all regions of his brain.

 

The Sports Legacy Institute (SLI), which oversaw and coordinated the testing, is an independent medical research organization dedicated to studying the long-term effects of head injuries in sports. SLI President Christopher Nowinski contacted Michael Benoit on June 28th, the Thursday after his son

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Glitter's Rock n Roll Part 2 song is still played across America at big football and basketball games, as the players enter. Its a song and a half, it has to be said.

[Magnum]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

Well, if he had been a shit wrestler, people wouldn't particularly have wanted to watch the matches again whether he'd killed anybody or not.

 

 

Still being able to 'enjoy his matches' depends on your own moral code I suppose, and whether you can still 'hero worship' - which to an extent is what you're doing - a double murderer.

 

No, it's not. Is enjoying a PG Wodehouse novel "hero-worship" of a Nazi collaborator or enjoying a Mishima Yukio book "hero-worship" of a neo-fascist madman?

 

See, I've no problem with people being unable to enjoy Benoit's matches because of what he did - what I do have a problem with is such people effectively becoming "holier-than-thou" and casting aspersions on others' moral code for not doing likewise.

 

Well, that's why there's always a debate when this topic comes up.

 

I make no apologies for what I posted. You can think what you like, again a free country, but I honestly find it a little weird and a little bit creepy that some people still act like 'fan boys' towards a double murderer.

 

Some things are far more important in life, or at least, should be.

 

Do you think that people who enjoy Benoit matches somehow have ignored or glossed over what he did? Because if that's what you're saying, it's incredibly presumptuous and condescending.

 

As to "some things are far more important in life": again, condescending. Nobody's sacrificing anything from their own life or giving particularly excessive devotion to Benoit by slapping the WMXX triple-threat on the DVD, and who are you to tell other people what "should be" important in life?

 

Exactly. The preaching is getting ridiculous.

 

ClassicsGuy, do you think someone who laughs at a scene involving OJ Simpson in the Naked Gun films is automatically 'hero worshipping' him or condoning murder?

[Pyrotechnik]

Imo anyone who kills a child is a scumbag bottom line, no excuses whatsoever, i cant and wont remember the guy as anything but a wanker. I have not been no angel in my life but there is a line. Gary Glitter was a great entertainer but who would consider listening to his music and forgetting his crimes, nobody i know.

 

Yet they had 1 of his songs on Glee not long ago now.

 

http://www.musicrooms.net/tv/28516-gary-gl...complaints.html

 

Just shows the morals of the world right now.

 

Glitter's music's been used a few times since, The Full Monty had one pretty memorable scene, and I was watching something over christmas with Cathrine Tate where a little girl dresses up like Gary Glitter at her school nativity and sings "Do you wanna be in my gang?"

 

Moral ethics go to shit pretty quickly in that regard.

[Carbomb]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

What utter balls. Who here's doing that? Name one. Name anybody on here who considers just watching his matches to be "putting him as a wrestler first". Nobody's done that - pretty much everyone on here who's stated they can still watch his matches has still acknowledged that what he did was abhorrent by any standard.

 

You've set up a massive straw man there.

 

EDIT: Seems Pyrotechnik and Magnum got there first.

[The Invisible Boy]

Well I must admit I have seen a few Benoit matches since then and I do feel a bit uncomfortable, I actually have his DVD and haven't watched that in a long time but I would never sell it or say that I wouldn't watch it again. The guy was a very good wrestler but we'll never really know if it was the brain damage which made him do this or if he was actually capable of it anyway.

 

At the end of the day people watch documentaries on murderers, they watch films based on murderers, they watch the news and follow murder hunts, they buy and watch films and programmes and buy and read books on murderers and people like Hitler, Ed Gein, Peter Sutcliffe, Jack the Ripper and so on have become famous and sort of celebrities and had characters based on them who now have big fan bases, such as Leatherface from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I understand it's not the same thing as waching and enjoying Benoit's wrestling matches but people still do spend time and money on things like this.

 

Just take a look at this article actually: Love Letters for Murderers . I think something like this is a lot more disturbing and disgusting than some wrestling fans watching a few wrestling matches involving a man who was a great wrestler but then ended his life in a terrible way by killing his wife and son and then himself. Watching Benoit wrestle does not mean you think he is a great person for doing what he did but he was a great wrestler, it is not as though you support him for what he did in his personal life.

 

I understand the question though and must say he may be remembered for being a great wrestler but I think he will be thought of firstly as a murderer, the stigma of murderer over rides all of his talent as a wrestler and when I hear "Chris Benoit" I think murderer first and then wrestler. I can watch his matches but I can never feel fully comfortable knowing what he did and that just effects my enjoyment of them so I think by not feeling comfortable watching them or being able to properly enjoy them, that is a big mark on his talent.

[Surf Digby]

I guess the question is, how do you feel watching things like this.

Not as uncomfortable as I do watching his mental state disintergrate in his backstage tribute to Eddie.

[Pyrotechnik]

I guess the question is, how do you feel watching things like this.

Not as uncomfortable as I do watching his mental state disintergrate in his backstage tribute to Eddie.

 

That was uncomfortable to watch then, fuck having to watch it now.

[knightmare]

Glitter's Rock n Roll Part 2 song is still played across America at big football and basketball games, as the players enter. Its a song and a half, it has to be said.

 

Thats the yanks for you. I was a great Glitter fan thought he was a great showmen but the day he did what he did he was a scumbag who would never get airtime in my house again. I guess its up to the individual but as i have said Benoit is a scumbag who imo when he killed a child he gave up all rights to be remembered for anything else. As i said its my opinion and i am answering the question put.

[Shit Poster]

Here's a question: if he had been a shit wrestler, would people be asking 'Will we ever remember this man for his talent again?'

 

I'd imagine the answer would be no; the first thing remembered would be that he was a double murderer, and the second thing - way behind everything else - would be that he had been a shit wrestler.

 

So in essence, some people seem to be putting the fact that he was a 'good wrestler' ahead of the fact that he was double murderer. That's the part that I find quite sick to be honest.

 

 

We wouldn't be saying would we remember him for his talent because you just said this Wrestler was shit.

 

Lets put it this way if a close family relative of you Mother/Father/Brother/Sister killed their other half and their little child and then killed themselves. Would you never think of them in a good way again? Say it was your brother who it would you never think back to the time he took you down to the park and played football or took you to a wrestling event or whatever.

 

The whole point is if Jackson Andrews killed his wife and kid he would not get as much coverage because he has not had anywhere near the career Benoit had I know he is still young. I wouldn't be thinking to myself I just can't bring myself to watch Jackson Andrews back catalogue I wouldn't want to watch it anyway.

 

Have you ever managed to bring your self to watch a documentary about Hitler or have you ever seen a war film where lots of people get killed that is based on true story. You can't hide under a shell there are people a million times worse than Benoit with the shit they have done. Difference is he also gave something to the world before he fucked up.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Here's one, if Benoit kept a bunch of women tied to his radiator and kept fucking and brutally tortuing them in a sexual manner every time there wasnt something on the telly (like lifelong jobber Hardbody Harrison did), would everyone still claim he's innocent? Replace Double H with Benoit for a second.