Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted February 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's all degrees though, isn't it? 'Close' is not the same as 'exactly the same', and as much creative license as they take there are somethings viewers might feel are core to the character that have been ignored by an adaptation. Â There's no hard and fast rules to it, nor any objective criteria of what you need to retain a feel of the original character, so fans of the sourcework are entitled on those grounds to find an adaptation lacking. Â If you have no intention of sticking to the source at all, why would you even bother using it as a starting point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 A lot of the time things that work in comic book/cartoon form don't necessarily translate well into 'real life'. I remember when people were kicking off about the costumes in the first X-Men film, specifically Wolverine not being in a mask or the black & yellow. Both Brian Singer & Hugh Jackman later mentioned that they'd done costume tests & when dressed up like that it just looked stupid, despite it being accurate to the original drawings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members FLips Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 So, its not like the comic book, so fucking what? Ive never got that side of the argument  How on earth can you not get that side of the argument? Surely you can understand that people may want things to be close the the source material they're an adaptation of?  Just read the source material, then. Why does it have to be exactly the same? What's the point?  I didn't say it had to be exactly the same, I just said surely you can understand why people may want things to be close to the source material.  I don't mind when things stray from the source material if they do it well, Judge Dredd changed some things that are fundamental to the character and the movie suffered massively for it.  Jesus, what's with you today?  Surely you can understand though why people wouldn't want it to be that close to the source material?. Maybe the source material wasn't that good to begin with, or maybe they wanted the characters and settings but not the same story. The Running Man for me stands out as a prime example of this. I've read The Running Man book and it's a load of shit. The film surpasses it in every way, and is arguably more recognizable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 Surely you can understand though why people wouldn't want it to be that close to the source material?. Maybe the source material wasn't that good to begin with, or maybe they wanted the characters and settings but not the same story. The Running Man for me stands out as a prime example of this. I've read The Running Man book and it's a load of shit. The film surpasses it in every way, and is arguably more recognizable. Â Of course I do, it's very possible to massively improve on the source material, I never said it wasn't. Â Having said that... Â If you have no intention of sticking to the source at all, why would you even bother using it as a starting point? Â Damn right, Surely being a movie instead of a comic/book/whatever is the big change and they may as well make it as similar as they can. Â A lot of the time things that work in comic book/cartoon form don't necessarily translate well into 'real life'. I remember when people were kicking off about the costumes in the first X-Men film, specifically Wolverine not being in a mask or the black & yellow. Both Brian Singer & Hugh Jackman later mentioned that they'd done costume tests & when dressed up like that it just looked stupid, despite it being accurate to the original drawings. Â Wolverine in black leather isn't Wolverine, Daredevil may not be everyone's favourite film but I felt his costume was a great compromise between the brightness of the comics and the dark realism the filmmakers seem to think everyone wants in a big screen adaptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 The thing that has been forgotten in the vast majority of cases in this endless line of comic book adaptations is that, first and foremost, they should be good films. A close resemblance to the source material should be WAY behind that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 The thing that has been forgotten in the vast majority of cases in this endless line of comic book adaptations is that, first and foremost, they should be good films. A close resemblance to the source material should be WAY behind that point. Â I agree totally but they can be good films and still retain what people loved in the comics, Spider-Man is a good example, they weren't ashamed of the fact that the comics are bright and over the top yet it still works as a film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 How on earth can you not get that side of the argument? Surely you can understand that people may want things to be close the the source material they're an adaptation of? Â Basically, a film adaptation isnt to sate a relatively small number of fans, thus limiting the exposure the film may get. Â If you are spending millions and millions bringing a film to screen, appealing to a small niche of comic book fans only is not going to get you a return on your money. So things were altered, it was still Judge Dredd, it was still set in the Judge Dredd universe. Using artistic license including a romance and removing the helmet to get some mass appeal for the film and thus more potential revenue is a complete no brainer. But this angers fans of the comic, because it isnt 'their' Judge Dredd. Â Of course it isn't. 'Their' Judge Dredd has been built up in thousands of comics, graphic novels and other stories establishing relationships and whatnot, the film hasn't got time to do this so would ever only be an approximation of what 'their' Judge Dredd was in the first place. So to judge it as if it is still 'their' Judge Dredd, is bit myopic in the extreme, because it fails to entertain the notion that the film isn't fan wankery for them, and that it has to deliver to a wider audience, some of whom wont give a shit about the character his origins and nuances and are watching it because of the actors involved, or because it happens to be an action film. Â That's pretty much why I dont get why people are throwing a fit over it, it's a completely pointless argument to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 But Judge Dredd removing his helmet didn't make a mass audience like the film, it was a pointless change, all it did was anger fans of the comic, maybe people would rather see a vigilante in a balaclava and leather jacket fight crime than a man dressed as a bat, it doesn't mean it would be a better Batman film. Â I'm sure there were very, very few people that went to see Judge Dredd because they got to see Sly's ugly face or because Rob Schneider was in it. Judge Dredd is a cop who wears a helmet, it added nothing having them take it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The thing that has been forgotten in the vast majority of cases in this endless line of comic book adaptations is that, first and foremost, they should be good films. A close resemblance to the source material should be WAY behind that point. But a lot of comics, especially superhero comics, are utter shit. And a lot of the fans of them are retards with no care for actual quality, they just want to see their hobby faithfully recreated on the screen. Â If you have no intention of sticking to the source at all, why would you even bother using it as a starting point? Because a recognisable brand pre-sells itself before spending advertising dollar one. The buzz might mostly be losers crying about how it's going to suck and not be true to the source material, but they're still falling all over themselves to follow the production and post leaked pics and trailers. You generally don't get that when it's a brand new IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted February 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2012 But Judge Dredd removing his helmet didn't make a mass audience like the film, it was a pointless change, all it did was anger fans of the comic, maybe people would rather see a vigilante in a balaclava and leather jacket fight crime than a man dressed as a bat, it doesn't mean it would be a better Batman film. I'm sure there were very, very few people that went to see Judge Dredd because they got to see Sly's ugly face or because Rob Schneider was in it. Judge Dredd is a cop who wears a helmet, it added nothing having them take it off.   Umm.. Stallone is a Box Office Draw, they wanted a big name to carry the film - you think the studio is going to pay Stallone's cheque and not have his face in the film?  You're being way too fussy with your arguments; you've lost me. Wolverine wasn't good because he wore black leather? Get out. Who gives a shit what he wears?  a lot of the fans of them are retards with no care for actual quality, they just want to see their hobby faithfully recreated on the screen.  This is very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 But Judge Dredd removing his helmet didn't make a mass audience like the film, it was a pointless change, all it did was anger fans of the comic, maybe people would rather see a vigilante in a balaclava and leather jacket fight crime than a man dressed as a bat, it doesn't mean it would be a better Batman film. Â Â I honestly couldnt give a shit that the removal of his helmet, angers you, sorry fans of the comic, so much. Many people went to watch the film because it was a Sly Stallone film, not necessarily because it was a film about Judge Dredd, first and foremost. The producers writers or whomever, clearly decided that removing his helmet could entice a wider audience and give them more chance of making a profit. Rather than paying lip service to a few thousand fans who wanted something to be true to the character. As Dredd started off as a riff on Frankenstein from Death Race 2000 who, incidentally, removes his helmet in that film, I find it hilarious that people are getting in such a tizzy over it. Â I'm sure there were very, very few people that went to see Judge Dredd because they got to see Sly's ugly face or because Rob Schneider was in it. Judge Dredd is a cop who wears a helmet, it added nothing having them take it off. Â Does the whole Star Power and Box Office appeal thing completely pass you by or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Do we have a thread for shitty comic book films? It would be nice to have one, just so us normal folk don't have to put with them. As said before, the best comic book films are the first two Superman films as they were aimed at a family audience, not Superman fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted February 7, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think there is a thread for them, actually. Â But tough shit... I'm sick of hearing about Westerns in the other film thread! Â Speaking of Superman 2 - I watched the Donner cut on Herbie's recommendation.. I thought it was really enjoyable up until the last ten minutes where he spun the world back in time a whole week and rendered the whole film utterly meaningless. What an idiotic ending. I hated that ending in Superman 1 and there was no need to do it again. Â A real shame that it ruined what was, otherwise, a really good version of the film. If they had just ended it with him going about trying to rebuild Metropolis and Lois knowing he was Superman but not being able to tell anyone, and understanding why they could never be together (from his big speach to her) it would have been so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 Umm.. Stallone is a Box Office Draw, they wanted a big name to carry the film - you think the studio is going to pay Stallone's cheque and not have his face in the film? You're being way too fussy with your arguments; you've lost me. Wolverine wasn't good because he wore black leather? Get out. Who gives a shit what he wears?  This is the kind of shit that irks me, really. It's a fucking adaptation. It's a film. It's not there to pander to what comic book fans want to see, it's there to give film fans what they think they might like to see. I don't care if Judge Dredd never took his helmet off in the comics. These aren't comics. Tough shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted February 7, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 I was having this same discussion with someone the other day, when they couldn't get over the fact that Superman won't have his red pants on in the new film. What's daft about it is the comic book telling/wardrobe for a lot of popular characters has changed over the years. Why wouldn't a different form want to change certain aesthetics to make it a better adaptation? Watchmen is indeed a fine example of why things need to be altered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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