Negativity Thread.

[Supremo]

When did the, “You Deserve It!” chant originate? Was it Daniel Bryan after Wrestlemania 30? Just trying to pin it down so I can go back in time and change history for the better.

Bryan Danielson is the best wrestler ever. He would have still succeeded, anyway. I’d go back and switch it back to Orton vs. Batista if it meant we never got that chant.

[The King of Old School]

Cringe as fuck that chant is.

[air_raid]

2 minutes ago, Supremo said:

When did the, “You Deserve It!” chant originate? Was it Daniel Bryan after Wrestlemania 30? Just trying to pin it down so I can go back in time and change history for the better.

[RedTwoster]

I’m completely fed up of wrestlers referencing backstage rumours/events or perceptions to be edgy, particularly if it’s a reference to a death. I never really liked it anyway, but wrestlers like MJF and Britt Baker referencing real life events as they desperately try to get an ‘ohhhhh’ from the audience has driven it into the ground for me.

It’s not just an issue in AEW, although they’re probably worse for it. If CM Punk’s feuds continue to be based around wrestlers hating him in real life, he’s going to start grating on me. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed the McIntyre feud and even the stuff with Rollins - I felt like they made it work in the context of a wrestling story - but this can’t be all that he does. I don’t think it will be all that he does, but I’m worried that it’ll still play a heavy role in his storylines going forward. I’m fed up of that kind of thing.

 

[Supremo]

16 minutes ago, air_raid said:

As I typed it, I wondered whether there was a fun thread idea to be had. When and who are you Quantum Leaping into to change pro-wrestling history for the better. I considered Leaping into Kurt Angle at the end of the Wrestlemania 19 main event and rolling slightly closer to Brock. Let him land the Shooting Star Press. Would be the coolest finish in Mania history.

But then I remembered how fucking dark and horrible pro-wrestling history is. Hard to keep it daft and fun with so many seasons of Dark Side you could fix!

[tiger_rick]

16 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

If CM Punk’s feuds continue to be based around wrestlers hating him in real life...

...he's going to be working til he's 150!

[air_raid]

7 minutes ago, Supremo said:

As I typed it, I wondered whether there was a fun thread idea to be had. When and who are you Quantum Leaping into to change pro-wrestling history for the better. I considered Leaping into Kurt Angle at the end of the Wrestlemania 19 main event and rolling slightly closer to Brock. Let him land the Shooting Star Press. Would be the coolest finish in Mania history.

Reminds me of a premise I once thought of called Wrestling Of Future Past. Example - if Virgil had won the 1992 Royal Rumble, would we be watching Nitro every week instead of Raw today?

[Ro_y Disco]

36 minutes ago, Supremo said:

When did the, “You Deserve It!” chant originate? Was it Daniel Bryan after Wrestlemania 30? Just trying to pin it down so I can go back in time and change history for the better.

I feel like it morphed from the "You've still got it" chant (same cadence, same shitness). The earliest I remember of that chant was Ricky Steamboat in his mid-00s WWE run.

[BomberPat]

11 hours ago, Carbomb said:

I just don't get why it's got to be a zero-sum game between technically classic matches and pure character-driven stuff in the absence of a combination of the two. I know that the wankraters take a certain position, but the opposite of that isn't hating what they like; it's inclusively liking all the good stuff wrestling has to offer in all its forms, instead of being exclusionist. Why hate the wrestling on a wrestling show? That's like hating a band and its music just because some of their fans are snobbish dicks.

It's something that took me far too long to realise, that when people on Twitter were always criticising AEW for having no "story" and just being "matches for the sake of matches", that aside from them being wrong about that, it was because there are way too many people who watch wrestling and see "story" and "wrestling match" as two completely separate parts of the show. The idea that the story is told within the matches just seemed completely alien to them.

And I can't really blame them, because whenever I watch WWE, it's pretty clear that's how they see it too. Nothing that happens in a match matters bar maybe the finish. Nothing in the matches is there to build heat, or to plant seeds that suggest what the finish will be, they just wrestle for their allotted time, until it's time to hit a pre-planned big spot or the finish. So if the only wrestling you've ever watched works that way, then yeah, I can see how you would think that wrestling matches are the means to an end to get to the next promo, the next angle, the next bit of (ugh) "cinema", but the idea that wrestling matches are the skippable, avoidable part of a wrestling show is ridiculous.

I'm not surprised that someone like Bully Ray is on this bandwagon, but what does he think he spent months or years at wrestling school for? What he is teaching people at his school - how to take bumps, run the ropes, and apply a top wristlock, or how to do am-dram monologues and stare at their hands? I turn more and more into a grumpy old-timer with this stuff, but the name of the show is wrestling.

[LaGoosh]

Whenever I see someone say "what's the story?" before a match happens it's always a good indicator to me that they are not a person worth listening to. It's just this weird mindset that blankly criticises wrestling matches for existing rather than being filler in between in-ring promo monologues and backstage segments with porno-levels of bad acting, and completely overlooks the true skill, story and beauty of this great art form. No time for that bullshit.

Something I really hate is when someone attacks someone with a chair but as they aren't allowed to do headshots anymore they hit them with a weak looking side shot to the stomach and then hit them on the back. It always without fail looks stupid.

 

Edited February 6, 2025 by LaGoosh

[Carbomb]

3 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

It's something that took me far too long to realise, that when people on Twitter were always criticising AEW for having no "story" and just being "matches for the sake of matches", that aside from them being wrong about that, it was because there are way too many people who watch wrestling and see "story" and "wrestling match" as two completely separate parts of the show. The idea that the story is told within the matches just seemed completely alien to them.

And I can't really blame them, because whenever I watch WWE, it's pretty clear that's how they see it too. Nothing that happens in a match matters bar maybe the finish. Nothing in the matches is there to build heat, or to plant seeds that suggest what the finish will be, they just wrestle for their allotted time, until it's time to hit a pre-planned big spot or the finish. So if the only wrestling you've ever watched works that way, then yeah, I can see how you would think that wrestling matches are the means to an end to get to the next promo, the next angle, the next bit of (ugh) "cinema", but the idea that wrestling matches are the skippable, avoidable part of a wrestling show is ridiculous.

I'm not surprised that someone like Bully Ray is on this bandwagon, but what does he think he spent months or years at wrestling school for? What he is teaching people at his school - how to take bumps, run the ropes, and apply a top wristlock, or how to do am-dram monologues and stare at their hands? I turn more and more into a grumpy old-timer with this stuff, but the name of the show is wrestling.

The weird thing is it's not like WWE weren't the best in the world at this at various points. One of my favourite matches of all time, to the point most people on here know it because I've bored everyone with it, is Piper vs. Hart at WM8, and the storytelling in it is impeccable. They do a perfect job of conveying the grizzled, veteran elite trying to keep up with the young, state-of-the-art technician by reminding people he too trained as a wrestler, but, on finding he might not quite be up to the task, especially with the only gold he'd ever won in the company on the line, he's torn between resorting to his villainous old ways and trying to beat his fellow Canadian that he knew since boyhood legitimately - and we know this because the crowd are in on it too, pleading with him not to do it. 

The infamous TAKA Michinoku vs. Triple H match was an indicator of how they could do it even on the everyday level. Hogan/Andre is a masterclass in doing the most with the least, and in creating iconic moments that break into mainstream culture. Hart/Austin at WM13 was about as definitive a passing of the torch as you'll ever see. And while it's now ruined, the main of WMXX was probably the last time wrestling had me jumping off the sofa and punching the air with a yell. As I understand it, the main event at WMXL was a masterpiece of storytelling, both in terms of story arc and in-match - from all the reports of the good lads and lasses on here, I almost regret not watching WWE any more.

[air_raid]

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

Whenever I see someone say "what's the story?" before a match happens it's always a good indicator to me that they are not a person worth listening to. It's just this weird mindset that blankly criticises wrestling matches for existing rather than being filler for in ring promo monologues and backstage segments with porno-levels of bad acting, and completely overlooks the true skill, story and beauty of this great art form. No time for that bullshit.

Fucking hell, this. Why are the two (pretend) sportspeople having a match in the (pretend) sport in which they both make their living? Christ, I don't know. Every match scheduled has to be because someone shagged the other's wife or tried to kill their granny, I suppose.

Although not to get too tribal about it, I do see some correlation between these twerps and the "pure sports" wankers. Missing the irony entirely.

[BomberPat]

Hart vs. Austin and Hart vs. Piper are probably my two favourite WWF matches ever for that exact reason, and I've been in at least two matches that actively ripped off Hart/Piper because it just works. 

But like with a lot of things in wrestling, at some point they stopped bothering to do the work to join the dots, and rushed straight to the conclusion. One of my least favourite moments ever in wrestling was a Drew McIntyre vs. Roman Reigns match a few years back, where as they got to the finish, Roman Reigns said out loud, "THIS ISN'T THE SAME DREW MCINTYRE I BEAT BEFORE". It was the height of Covid or slightly post-Covid era in-ring monologuing that WWE have never fully recovered from, but it was the most "Tell, Don't Show" bit of wrestling I had ever seen. It tells me that either WWE don't trust their wrestlers to be able to tell the story well enough, or they don't trust their audience to be able to understand the story, so rather than actually telling it through the ringwork, they just have the wrestlers shout the story beats out loud so you can't possibly miss it. 

It's something I've seen on the indies a lot too, and particularly when it comes to comedy matches, where in order to make a joke or a funny spot work, it involves a lot of talking out loud. Your voice is one of the tools available to you as a wrestler, but when you need to talk more than you need to wrestle to make something work, then maybe wrestling isn't the right medium for that idea. Bret Hart didn't need to shout "I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS, I'M GOING TO BE THE BAD GUY NOW" in the I Quit match with Austin, Piper didn't need to say "I CAN'T BEAT HIM, MAYBE I SHOULD CHEAT" right down the camera, they trusted in their wrestling to tell the story. And if it needs someone to go a bit further in explaining things, that's what the commentators are for. 

[BomberPat]

9 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Fucking hell, this. Why are the two (pretend) sportspeople having a match in the (pretend) sport in which they both make their living? Christ, I don't know. Every match scheduled has to be because someone shagged the other's wife or tried to kill their granny, I suppose.

100%. Every match has a story, and that story is "both of these wrestlers want to win this wrestling match". Anything else is an added extra.

[LaGoosh]

21 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

100%. Every match has a story, and that story is "both of these wrestlers want to win this wrestling match". Anything else is an added extra.

"but why are they wrestling?"

Personal glory, ego, the winners purse and to improve their standing so they can get a Championship shot. It's pretty simple. 

Another thing I hate:

Cutters.

The RKO works. Every other version looks shit. Too many people do them and the more dives and springboards involved the worse they are.