POLL: Are you satisfied with AEW/WWE's booking right now?

[LaGoosh]

4 hours ago, RedRooster said:

also slightly surprised at just how many people don't watch WWE on these forums - I guess AEW finally gave people a reason to stop watching, and some never came back. Maybe the fact so many people are enjoying what they're doing right now will lure some people back, I don't know. I'm curious as to what people consider "not watching" - is it a complete WWE blackout; or are you still tuning in for major PPVs like Royal Rumble or 'Mania?

I don't watch WWE pretty much at all. I've been seeing the praise the shows and some of the big matches get and will check it out I just fucking HATE it. The fact they are so popular right now genuinely baffles me. It just feels so far removed from what I believe wrestling is or should be. I keep trying it but I just can't enjoy it.

I find the production completely off putting. Constant camera cuts (not as bad as it used to be but still painful to watch), flashing lights, graphics and bullshit just absolutely all over the place,  awful music. Just relentess STUFF all over the screen. The ringside area looks like the softplay I take my kid to. Backstage segments dreadfully directed with hideous lighting and completely ignoring the physical laws of reality.

The characters for the most part feel to me incredibly cheesy. Feels like a modern day version of the New Generation. Corny, one note childish gimmicks all over the shows. Seth Rollins and Cody Rhodes as top babyfaces - absolutely not for me. A couple of lads from the Wetherspoons calling themselves Brawling Brutes?! VIKINGS! Fuck off.

The wrestling itself seems inconsequential and mostly pretty bad. The main events all follow the same formula WWE has followed for over a decade now. Most the matches are shallow affairs with mostly high spots, little connective tissue and no actual storytelling within the matches themselves and nothing seems to matter except the finishing stretch.

So that was a bit of a rant but that's why I don't watch WWE. AEW is massively flawed in a whole host of ways but I love wrestling and so it feels like it's either AEW or nothing for me. If AEW goes to shits I'll probably be done with wrestling.

For years WWE referred to themselves as sports entertainment but it still always felt like wrestling to me. However now it feels like they've finally perfected and mastered the sports entertainment formula and presentation they've always been chasing after and it doesn't satisy any of my tastes, unfortunately. I wish it did!

Edited October 18, 2023 by LaGoosh

[air_raid]

54 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

Backstage segments dreadfully directed with hideous lighting and completely ignoring the physical laws of reality.

Do people still watch the monitor from a sideways angle?

[garynysmon]

58 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't watch WWE pretty much at all. I've been seeing the praise the shows and some of the big matches get and will check it out I just fucking HATE it. The fact they are so popular right now genuinely baffles me. It just feels so far removed from what I believe wrestling is or should be. I keep trying it but I just can't enjoy it.

I find the production completely off putting. Constant camera cuts (not as bad as it used to be but still painful to watch), flashing lights, graphics and bullshit just absolutely all over the place,  awful music. Just relentess STUFF all over the screen. The ringside area looks like the softplay I take my kid to. Backstage segments dreadfully directed with hideous lighting and completely ignoring the physical laws of reality.

The characters for the most part feel to me incredibly cheesy. Feels like a modern day version of the New Generation. Corny, one note childish gimmicks all over the shows. Seth Rollins and Cody Rhodes as top babyfaces - absolutely not for me. A couple of lads from the Wetherspoons calling themselves Brawling Brutes?! VIKINGS! Fuck off.

This is exactly how I feel tbh. I can never get as far as watching the actual wrestling as the whole presentation is just so busy and overproduced.

I don’t find AEW overproduced in the same way and Dynamitereminds me of an episode of Nitro, which is about optimum level for me.

I can just abode live with my annual watch the first few matches of Wrestlemania before going to bed, but how anyone could find their presentation to be watchable every week baffles me.

Its no coincidence that some my favourite WWF eras were the rise of Rock n Wrestling and 1997, when the product was far from polished and still contained lots of kinks and its original charm.

It just feels sanitised beyond belief and a Hollywood-esque production isn’t what I want at all. Its no wonder I enjoy Impact with its questionable lightling and production snafus really is it?

[BomberPat]

11 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Do people still watch the monitor from a sideways angle?

My favourite is when a wrestler is a backstage angle is surprised by somebody else stepping into shot from off-camera, even though they're directly in front of them, because being off-camera is the same as being invisible. 

It's a thing that's been there for so long that nobody questions it any more, but something that drives me mad in WWE is when they cut to a backstage room a couple of seconds before two wrestlers start to have a narratively significant conversation. In the internal kayfabe logic of the show, why did that format point exist, to cut to that room at that time? Why did two wrestlers wait until they were on camera to have that private conversation? 

[DavidB6937]

10 minutes ago, garynysmon said:

I can just abode live with my annual watch the first few matches of Wrestlemania before going to bed, but how anyone could find their presentation to be watchable every week baffles me.

I can't see why it would baffle anyone. Obviously I can understand why some people might not like it, but it's not like WWE's presentation has changed a ridiculous amount. In fact you could argue that it's pretty stale if anything. But it's not like it's an unwatchable product. It's very professional and polished and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

[LaGoosh]

48 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

amount. In fact you could argue that it's pretty stale if anything. But it's not like it's an unwatchable product. It's very professional and polished and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Well that's the point though: to some of us it is unwatchable...

A separate point: sometimes booking is seen as everything except the matches themselves when good booking is even better when it's a story told within the matches rather than promos/angles. AEW is often really good at this.

A recent specific example of this:

- Danielson coming off a severe arm injury faces Zack Sabre Jnr to see who the best technical/submission wrestler in the world is.

- the story of the match is Sabre is a master strategist with a game plan to draw Danielson into using his injured arm which he will then use against him to tap him out. Danielson however is an instinctive wrestler, not a strategist, and will take advantage in the momemt to win anyway he can. Which he does via a running knee and not a technical or submission move. So Sabre lost but not by submission so can still argue hes better at submissions leading to a rematch.

- the following week a banged up Danielson is fighting a hungry, younger Kyle Fletcher who is bigger, stronger, faster and fresher than Bryan. Danielson is almost matched in every way. Danielson gets the win by using one of Sabre's trademark pins! It's the first time he's ever used it. Danielson shows he is constantly learning from his opponents, getting new tricks and adapting to stay ahead of the new stars coming in who want to take his spot.

Logical, ongoing stories that add extra depth told within the matches themselves are really fantastic and exactly what I look for. And that's what keeps me watching AEW.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by LaGoosh

[Factotum]

I think both are good. WWE has the hottest top angle of course, but I still find some of the stuff a slog. I tend to dip into the bits I want to watch rather than watch the whole show.

AEW could be better, but it's still entertaining. It isn't as hot as it was, but I find it a better product to sit and enjoy than WWE as a whole.

Overall wrestling is in a pretty good place.

[BomberPat]

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

A separate point: sometimes booking is seen as everything except the matches themselves when good booking is even better when it's a story told within the matches rather than promos/angles. 

This is a huge thing for me - when AEW was at its best, a lot of people were arguing that it was just "matches with no story", and it took me longer than I'd care to admit to realise that it was because a lot of WWE die-hards see "wrestling match" and "story" as two distinct parts of the show, that wrestling is the stuff that happens between the bells, and "story" is all promos and video packages, and it's hard to blame them when that's how WWE have taught them this all works for so long.

It made me realise why I find WWE so unfulfilling to watch - none of the wrestling matters. Outside of the finish, nothing in any match has any consequence whatsoever. And after the finish, nine times out of ten that stops mattering too - whether it's John Cena doing a "nice speech" promo to someone who just beat him, or someone who got put through hell in a big bump filled hardcore match wrestling with no sign of wear and tear the following night, nothing that happens in the ring has meaning. Throw in my biggest bugbear with modern WWE, that none of their heels ever cheat (unless it's the finish, and the babyfaces are just as likely to do it as the heels are), and it means there's no heat, there's no sense of the rules of wrestling ever mattering. It's not helped by the fact that their biggest star is a heel champion who relies on his running buddies to interfere in his matches, yet the commentators don't talk about that, they talk him up as an all-conquering generational talent. It's just an entire approach to wrestling that, to me, feels like it consistently misses the point. 

[LaGoosh]

2 hours ago, garynysmon said:

no coincidence that some my favourite WWF eras were the rise of Rock n Wrestling and 1997, when the product was far from polished and still contained lots of kinks and its original charm.

97-99 WWF is peak wrestling production for me. Perfect balance of feeling big time and polished while still feeling gritty and realistic. The backstage stuff during this time in particular was brilliantly done.

[garynysmon]

36 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

97-99 WWF is peak wrestling production for me. Perfect balance of feeling big time and polished while still feeling gritty and realistic. The backstage stuff during this time in particular was brilliantly done.

As earlier mentioned though, I have no doubt that Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn would argue that the current setup is what they’ve always wanted in reality, just that the technology/finances now allows for screens all over the place and such a ‘busy’ setting.

[Devon Malcolm]

Tbh I think they're both two cheeks of the same arse. Only right now in late 2023 it's Alexis Texas' arse and not Keith Chegwin's as has mostly been the case the last few years.

They're both doing the same sort of thing only AEW has more swearing and blood. Otherwise they're indistinguishable from one another in style and production, although WWE is far more polished at the latter, for better or worse. I can't see how someone would utterly detest one and love the other, but I don't watch massive amounts of it, so maybe that plays a part.

[LaGoosh]

12 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

I can't see how someone would utterly detest one and love the other, but I don't watch massive amounts of it, so maybe that plays a part.

I think that's probably it. I watch loads of AEW and barely any WWE - when I do the differences across most elements of the show are pretty glaring. I can appreciate though that to a casual fan these differences might not be hugely noticeable.

Edited October 18, 2023 by LaGoosh

[SuperBacon]

8 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said:

I can't see how someone would utterly detest one and love the other, but I don't watch massive amounts of it, so maybe that plays a part.

This massively helps. 

I watch the big 4 WWE PPVs every year, maybe a couple of other ones if they sound good and the AEW ones that look and sound good too.

Maybe a Dynamite if Danielson is wrestling someone, but apart from that I just can't be arsed anymore.

I'll always love wrestling, and really enjoy reading about it, some of the podcasts and all of the "stuff" that goes with being a fan/things only wrestling fans get, but I just don't have the energy or passion these days.

Again, to repeat myself, it sounds utterly exhausting to be really involved in it.

That's not a slight on anyone by the way, fair play if you love it all, but it's not for me that much anymore Clive.

[Keith Houchen]

40 minutes ago, SuperBacon said:

This massively helps. 

Perhaps not so much on here, but tribalism is also a factor. Pricks can’t say they like something on a show that’s meant to be the enemy. 

[DavidB6937]

Oh tribalism on social media is fucking ridiculous. The shit some people come out with just because it's on the "other" show when you know they'd absolutely fucking love it otherwise.

I'm glad it's far more balanced on here. And that actually plays a big part in keeping my interest in all of it really. If I just had the bullshit on Twitter or whatever then I'd probably give up.