Paid Members Chris B Posted October 18, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 18, 2023 7 hours ago, BomberPat said: It made me realise why I find WWE so unfulfilling to watch - none of the wrestling matters. Outside of the finish, nothing in any match has any consequence whatsoever. And after the finish, nine times out of ten that stops mattering too - whether it's John Cena doing a "nice speech" promo to someone who just beat him, or someone who got put through hell in a big bump filled hardcore match wrestling with no sign of wear and tear the following night, nothing that happens in the ring has meaning. This is why one of the points where I really started feeling excited about AEW and storytelling was a small moment, but so different to anything I'd seen in a while. It was after the hardcore match between Omega and Mox. Omega, beaten up, goes to get cleared and the Doctor won't do it. After a bit, Omega accepts it - "after that match, I guess neither Moxley or I can be cleared". "No, Mox is cleared." Followed by Omega leaving, dejected. Loved that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted October 19, 2023 Author Share Posted October 19, 2023 19 hours ago, LaGoosh said: The wrestling itself seems inconsequential and mostly pretty bad. The main events all follow the same formula WWE has followed for over a decade now. Most the matches are shallow affairs with mostly high spots, little connective tissue and no actual storytelling within the matches themselves and nothing seems to matter except the finishing stretch. Weirdly enough, it's the formula that makes it harder for me to enjoy AEW matches right now. There are recurring features that take me out of it - such as interference finishes - particularly when it comes to TV matches. And there are frequently long matches with very predictable outcomes - for example, when Julia Hart was challenging for Kris Statlander's title - she had competitive matches with credible opponents as we approached that match, but you knew what the outcome would be - what it had to be. It makes it very hard for me to get invested in that match. This happens a lot, and I'd like to see a break from that formula. A good match in isolation just isn't enough for me. I have to care about the outcome. Now, I'm not saying WWE is immune from that - but I feel like there's more variety right now in how feuds are presented, and in general build-up. In the Vince McMahon era, AEW was undeniably better - and felt fresh and exciting. Now you have a rough idea what is going to happen based on previous form. I find AEW's storytelling, at the moment, very repetitive. There are so many great stories throughout the history of AEW - Omega/Page, Kingston/Moxley, MJF/Punk, Rhodes/Jericho and Pac/Cassidy. All of these involved a balance of intelligent in-ring storytelling and character work. You could easily break down the various plot points verbally and each story would feel very different, and many of these stories were going on simultaneously. It also felt like there was a general direction. For me, AEW has lost that. Most shows are enjoyable enough, but the sense of excitement has gone, sadly. At least for me it has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted October 19, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 19, 2023 10 hours ago, Chris B said: It was after the hardcore match between Omega and Mox. Omega, beaten up, goes to get cleared and the Doctor won't do it. After a bit, Omega accepts it - "after that match, I guess neither Moxley or I can be cleared". "No, Mox is cleared." Followed by Omega leaving, dejected. Loved that. That's fantastic. I do think WWE shows signs of improvement. The whole scenario regarding Cody, Roman and the tag titles and the reasons behind it discussed in the Raw thread, is a cracking bit of nuance and one of the best uses of the "brand split" concept I recall in 20 years plus (on and off) of them having versions of it. If that came from the brain of Hunter, then I'm very optimistic about the future. Either way, it's genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 19, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 19, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, RedRooster said: And there are frequently long matches with very predictable outcomes - for example, when Julia Hart was challenging for Kris Statlander's title - she had competitive matches with credible opponents as we approached that match, but you knew what the outcome would be - what it had to be. It makes it very hard for me to get invested in that match. I'd argue that the vast majority of matches in wrestling history have always had predictable outcomes. And I think that needs to be the case. You build up your stars by winning matches week to week then when you put them up against someone on their level or above you have a big match with an unpredictable outcome. It's wrestling booking 101. Kris Statlander needs to beat the Julia Hart's of the world so when she faces Toni Storm or whoever she has momentum behind her, and equally by being competitive against the Champion Julia Hart looks good and she'll be back for more. I suppose it all comes down to individual tastes. I will happily enjoy a match if it's good action with people I like, I don't feel like I always need to be emotionally invested in a match or the outcome before watching it to find it entertaining or engaging. That sounds like a bit of an exhausting way to watch wrestling to me, personally. Edited October 19, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 Needs to be a balance really doesn't it? Same with movies and other TV shows. Predictable doesn't mean bad. If you look at everything that way then you just get swerve after swerve and twists and turns for the sake of it which just takes everything in the opposite direction and is just as bad. Quite often it isn't the end result. It's how you get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 19, 2023 Share Posted October 19, 2023 I don't mind a competitive match, but besides the Wardlow ones almost every AEW match is a competitive 15 minutes on tv where everyone gets their stuff in. Yes, they tell a story but it's often exactly the same story as the other 4 matches on that show. There's also a general lack of selling and a general over-reliance on spotty stuff that makes AEW a bit of a bore sometimes. Like WWE, they need a board backstage that says "Superkicks - Bucks, Plancha - Penta" and then other people avoid those spots in their matches. AEW is also quite bad at long-term storytelling. Many stories start, few finish. Remember the Wardlow push? Remember the backstage beatdown of Jay White? Does anyone really know where MJF is headed for the next 6 months. WWE is a lot better at this. They have 6-12 months plotted out with PPV main events. They sow seeds for stuff and generally it happens. Yes there's a house style but there's also more protection of big spots (and that seems to be a relatively recent thing over the last few years). It's quite easy to dip in and out of WWE and understand what's going on and where it's headed. AEW it feels like you need to watch every show AND ROH and Japan, and follow Twitter feuds AND watch BTE. Who has time for that who's not on their roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 28, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 28, 2023 On 10/19/2023 at 1:20 PM, Loki said: I don't mind a competitive match, but besides the Wardlow ones almost every AEW match is a competitive 15 minutes on tv where everyone gets their stuff in. Yes, they tell a story but it's often exactly the same story as the other 4 matches on that show. There's also a general lack of selling and a general over-reliance on spotty stuff that makes AEW a bit of a bore sometimes. Like WWE, they need a board backstage that says "Superkicks - Bucks, Plancha - Penta" and then other people avoid those spots in their matches. AEW is also quite bad at long-term storytelling. Many stories start, few finish. Remember the Wardlow push? Remember the backstage beatdown of Jay White? Does anyone really know where MJF is headed for the next 6 months. WWE is a lot better at this. They have 6-12 months plotted out with PPV main events. They sow seeds for stuff and generally it happens. Yes there's a house style but there's also more protection of big spots (and that seems to be a relatively recent thing over the last few years). It's quite easy to dip in and out of WWE and understand what's going on and where it's headed. AEW it feels like you need to watch every show AND ROH and Japan, and follow Twitter feuds AND watch BTE. Who has time for that who's not on their roster? - Yes AEW can have a problem with lack of selling and repetition of spots in some matches for sure. It can be frustrating. However they are also putting on some genuinely fantastic matches pretty much every week at a rate I can't remember seeing since the Smackdown 6 era. WWE have their in house style and it's pretty dull and unsatisfying for the most part, I find. Lack of in match storytelling, melodrama, over-reliance on spots to fill time till the ending stretch of signature moves. If you want good wrestling then AEW is clearly above WWE in both quality and quantity. - Yeah AEW has got pretty bad at longer term storytelling over the past year or so which is a shame. The stop start pushes in particular drive me crazy. WWE seem to have gone the other way which is good, but only if you actually want to see what they're planning. And didn't they always used to be critized on here for always sticking to The Plan? - I don't watch ROH, BTE or New Japan and I can keep up with everything just fine. It's really not difficult at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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