AEW Dynamite Thread 2023

[RedRooster]

2 hours ago, Supremo said:

What’s most exhausting is that we’ve been here time and time again. All this, “but what’s the story,” shit has come up numerous times, and every single time it’s completely disproven when they inevitably air vignettes or have Excalibur expertly explain exactly how and why a match is happening before, during and after. Rinse and repeat. No-one ever learns. No-one ever goes, “ah, fair enough, seems I’m talking bollocks.” This dog shit take just goes into storage before it depressingly comes around again a month or so later. 

It’s cool that you like it and all, but you surely have to accept that if it keeps coming up, it must be a problem - perhaps not for you, but for enough people for it to be a valid thing to say. 

Just as it’s not for me to say you are ‘talking bollocks’ for defending AEW’s storytelling, I don’t think it’s for you - or anyone else - to say @Doog - is talking bollocks for thinking differently in this instance. I’ll make no secret of the fact I agree with aspects of what he said, and I think he explained it well. I also think his viewpoint has been misrepresented, even after he clarified what he meant. He’s quite clearly said it’s not just about this match. 

Similarly, I think others have explained why they are fine with it perfectly well. Both opinions are perfectly valid, and both can be true at the same time. It’s perfectly fine to defend your opinion on here, or to be in a position where you have to/want to; but outside of some extreme situations, I don’t think anyone should have to defend the validity of what they think; not when it comes to their enjoyment of a show, at least.
 

Edited October 22, 2023 by RedRooster

[DavidB6937]

TK has paid Darby off to never turn on Sting?

 

[d-d-d-dAz]

It’s got a statue at Daily’s Place written all over it. 

[69MeDon]

Tony has clearly used his billions to develop de-aging drugs, specficially for Sting.

Unfortunately, the expense involved means the coming Dynamite will be the last.

[RedRooster]

54 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

It’s got a statue at Daily’s Place written all over it. 

Or it’s getting renamed, so that it’s named after him. I could see something like that happening. 

[d-d-d-dAz]

5 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Or it’s getting renamed, so that it’s named after him. I could see something like that happening. 

Sting’s Place sounds like a chippy in Hastings.

[The Gaffer]

Quote

"Nothing like this has ever happened to a wrestler in pro wrestling."

Union representation? 

[The King Of Swing]

He's sacking all the wrong'ens? 

[Hannibal Scorch]

Sting Statue outside Craven Cottage confirmed.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

7 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

TK has paid Darby off to never turn on Sting?

 

Part of me is horrified to think he's just going to give him a blowie in the middle of the ring. 

Serious suggestion though; he's gone and bought him a classic championship belt he used to hold or something.

[Supremo]

As expected, Excalibur spent the entirety of the Tag Match With No Story explaining all the stories both leading into it, and leading out. Talking at length about Cassidy having unfinished business with the Combat Club due to his beef with Mox, Okada wanting revenge for being made to tap out at Forbidden Door - something he’s rarely done in his career - and Danielson wanting revenge for his broken arm.

Coming out of the match you also had Danielson selling a potential injury from Cassidy and Okada, likely leading to a Wrestle Kingdom match, and Claudio earning himself an International Title match next week after beating Orange, which will likely lead to the inevitable re-match between Cassidy and Mox at the pay per view. And then just for shits and giggles you also had Yuta and Hook staring each other out, probably teasing a program there too.

Not bad for a random match that definitely has no story, eh?

Bonus points for this supposedly being an example of the type of match that results in low attendance, only for the ticket sales to improve dramatically once this match was announced, to the point that they beat their attendance in this same building a year ago.

It was a mostly great show, bar one obvious exception.

Phenomenal opening segment. Pure Dynamite energy. Tonnes of stuff going on simultaneously, all of it awesome. Roddy was funny again, MJF as the fiery babyface wanting blood was amazing, Juice took a fantastic beating, Omega challenging Max felt absolutely massive and the 8-man tag tease for next week gave me the biggest Pinnacle-sized boner imaginable. It has to be them, doesn’t it? Hopefully they all come out in suits, each wearing a devil mask, then whip them off at the same time to a huge pop.

Omega vs. MJF for Collision is inspired. Finally pulling the trigger on the most stacked roster of all time. Keep it up!

Great crowd all night long. Everything got huge reactions and for the first time in ages it didn’t feel like they were specifically shooting in strict angles to hide empty seats. Boss.

RVD looked great again. Hook’s hair looked even better. Gorgeous, gorgeous man. Felt like RVD might turn on him though. Anyone else get that sense? I wouldn’t be against it. Anything that keeps Rob coming back for more fun matches, with the amazing music. I’d love to see what Omega or the Young Bucks could do with Rob. They somehow manage to make Jeff and Matt Hardy look semi-decent still, and they’re infinitely more washed than RVD, so they’d probably do wonders with him.

Swerve Strickland in Hangman’s house was the scariest bit of heel work of recent times. Genuinely gasp-worthy when he walked into the kid’s bedroom. What a horrible man. Five stars.

Remember when The Young Bucks won a tag title shot at Wrestledream? Why has that been dropped?

Jericho teasing someone bigger than Hobbs? Goldberg? Surely it can’t be Paul Wight. Tall Paul looked practically immobile in London. I can’t imagine him being able to pull off a match, even if it’s a tag.

The amount of acne on MJF’s shoulders during the backstage segment with Samoa Joe! Fucking hell. Holla if ya hear me!

Great main event. I didn’t realise Orange Cassidy and Bryan Danielson hadn’t touched before. Hopefully they have a singles match soon. Arguably the two best wrestlers in the world right now. I bet they could have an incredible 40 minute match on Collision, starting with loads of brilliant comedy before turning into a violent war.

Pleasantly surprised to hear the huge reaction when Okada and Danielson interacted too. It’s almost as if nobody watched their crushingly disappointing match at Forbidden Door. Nice to see the spark is still there. Hopefully the re-match is better.

The camera zooming out for the Rainmaker pose, then zooming out again for the Best Friends Hug. Peak AEW, that. Really made me laugh.

Already excited for next week. The exchanges between Orange Cassidy and Claudio suggest we’re getting a blinder. Some amazing spots in there. Hopefully a taste of things to come. Liquid wrestling.

Worst part of the show was obviously Ric Flair. Just fuck off. Took what was a great, warm, fuzzy idea in Sting’s retirement run and made the whole thing smell like sexual assault accusations. Awful. I’ve got more time for Tony Khan than most. The Twitter stuff mostly just amuses me and the wrestling business in 2023 wouldn’t be anywhere near as great if Lil’ Tone hadn’t decided to bring his e-fed to life. But there’s no defending this. Just fuck off, mate. You can’t spend the last fortnight making jokes about Vince McMahon being a sex pest and then bring in Ric Flair. You can’t make a huge, public stand about never allowing Hulk Hogan to come in and then bring in Ric Flair.

For the longest time, one of the best things about AEW is that they’d create these classy addendums to episodes of Dark Side of the Ring. The Nick Gage episode seeing him get a shot on mainstream TV. The Brian Pillman episode saw them giving Pillman Junior a far bigger spotlight than that useless lump ever deserved. The heartbreaking Kanyon episode being followed by a touching tribute match involving Brian Cage doing all of Kanyon’s spots. The Owen Hart episode that saw his wife and kids hating pro-wrestling, followed by the lovely tournament and classy speeches, where Owen’s family finally feel happy and comfortable with the business, celebrating their father’s career.

Well, I guess that’s the end of that streak. The Plane Ride from Hell episode was followed by him refusing to book Ric Flair…for a bit. Give it a year or two for everyone to forget, and then here comes the Nature Boy! Whoooo! Gross.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Supremo

[garynysmon]

3 hours ago, Supremo said:

Just fuck off, mate. You can’t spend the last fortnight making jokes about Vince McMahon being a sex pest and then bring in Ric Flair. You can’t make a huge, public stand about never allowing Hulk Hogan to come in and then bring in Ric Flair.

There’s always an element of selective outrage with this.

For years Hulk Hogan has been the poster boy for what a certain section of the fanbase has stood against. You can just see TK ranting about Hogan on the Observer message boards can’t you?

Flair doesn’t have the same bogeyman status as he was more technically sound in the ring.

For an industry that still churns an alarming number of people who put their fandom of a certain style of wrestling ahead of rational/conventional thought and will proudly proclaim that Chris Benoit should be revered or put into the hall of fame, its not surprising.

Edited October 26, 2023 by garynysmon

[RedRooster]

4 hours ago, Supremo said:

Swerve Strickland in Hangman’s house was the scariest bit of heel work of recent times. Genuinely gasp-worthy when he walked into the kid’s bedroom. What a horrible man. Five stars.

It was really uncomfortable, but in a good way. Between this and the Buddy Wayne gym angle, he's developed into a truly sinister character - and a lot of what he does feels very fresh and unique. I know we've had home invasions in wrestling before, but not like this - where even Prince Nana felt that he'd gone too far. Now they just need to have the guy win more often against the big stars. It was a mistake to have him lose to Sting, and I think it would be a mistake to have him lose to Hangman in their rematch - even though wrestling logic would suggest he should. Another victory would set him up nicely to face MJF - and I'd be in favour of seeing him win the title.

MJF/Omega taking place on Collision is interesting - tied in with the fact they seem to be lining up a run of big matches for him between now and the end of the year. It does make me wonder if they're getting their money's worth with Max while they can, before his contract expires. I hope that's not the case, though - it feels like there's much more for him to do in AEW. 

So Tony Khan's gift to Sting was an alleged sex offender. I suppose that is pretty unique, as is the fact Sting is now the minority in his group in that he's the only one who hasn't had allegations made against him. Given that Khan already employs several other people with equally grave allegations made against them, it's hard for me to view this signing as the one to feel outraged about. He knew full well what Jay Lethal had been accused of before he was signed, as did the fans - but people seem to just accept that he's there now. It's a bit grim, but I suspect that's what will happen with Flair too.

Was Shida/Soho the worst match in AEW history? Everything about it was bad, including the bizarre part in which Soho would have had Shida disqualified, thus costing herself the title. It's pretty damning of Soho's overall ability, that she couldn't have even a passable match with one of the best women's wrestlers in the company. 

4 hours ago, Supremo said:

Not bad for a random match that definitely has no story, eh?

I don't think there's much point retreading old ground here, but that's not really a fair representation of what was said - it was more that the stories aren't well told, and require a lot of background reading. It was also a bit odd that they didn't hype up the main event at all (unless I missed it) throughout the show, to the point I forgot it was actually happening. I also don't really like the AEW trope of ending the show with lots of people in the ring either brawling or staring at one another - it's a bit overdone and feels a bit of a lazy way to move into a programme. 

That said, it was a very good show overall. I wish I had it in me to feel more deflated by the Flair appearance; but if anything, I felt a sense of resignation. "Oh, another one."

[The Gaffer]

5 hours ago, Supremo said:

As expected, Excalibur spent the entirety of the Tag Match With No Story explaining all the stories both leading into it, and leading out. Talking at length about Cassidy having unfinished business with the Combat Club due to his beef with Mox, Okada wanting revenge for being made to tap out at Forbidden Door - something he’s rarely done in his career - and Danielson wanting revenge for his broken arm.

Coming out of the match you also had Danielson selling a potential injury from Cassidy and Okada, likely leading to a Wrestle Kingdom match, and Claudio earning himself an International Title match next week after beating Orange, which will likely lead to the inevitable re-match between Cassidy and Mox at the pay per view. And then just for shits and giggles you also had Yuta and Hook staring each other out, probably teasing a program there too.

Not bad for a random match that definitely has no story, eh?

You're hyper-invested and that's cool, but part of the job of episodic television is to try and bring everyone else along with it. I know that carries the risk of succumbing to WWE's recap-itis but it wouldn't kill AEW to open Dynamites with a quick sixty seconds on what happened last week and where we might be going tonight, with a voiceover. Maybe letting you know where the show's headed in main event/closing segment terms without giving the whole jig up. Giving you that general feel for what the big angles are. 

What you've (brilliantly) outlined is some great in-the-moment storytelling. It's great for people who are as invested as you are. I still think they could capitalise on and package this better on occasion for people dipping in and out. 

That said, it was one of the better Dynos of the year. The sheer joy of it being in front of a hot market again, being able to turn the lights up and pan the camera all the way around, people enjoying the product for what it is instead of quietly grumbling that the short order cook should still be there.

It doesn't make up for the poorly timed angle a few weeks back but Juice taking one of the mothers of all heel comeuppance beatdowns was great. RVD and Hook are a delight. Flair and his hip-hop chains can do one. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Gay as FOOK

[Infinity Land]

Bit of a tangent for now. A lot happened on the show that will no doubt overshadow this.

MJF v. The Gunns at Full Gear. Double duty again for MJF. Maybe there's an angle to it and it ends up on the main show, but outside chance it's a Zero Hour match. Whatever happens this match and any follow up angle could have been done on the LA Collision or any preceding Dynamite/Collision. PPVs are crammed enough as it is without throwing in another handicap match fitting into the WrestleDream formatting.

When thinking about "You did this at WrestleDream already". It reminded me of The Righteous. Remember them? Whether you liked them or not they got a couple of a weeks of a push. Decent vignettes. Lots of speculation about the paper dolls and their meaning. Haven't been seen since. According to cagematch they have had a random squash on ROH so injuries don't appear to be a factor. 

I dunno it's annoyed me more than it should. Same handful of people getting not just TV time, but character work. Stop/start pushes for people that only exist to shine up the main characters.