Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted November 29, 2022 Awards Moderator Share Posted November 29, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamaras-Tash Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 Any clues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUM Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 12 hours ago, air_raid said: All the people saying War Games as a concept is bad, make me very sad indeed. War Games 92 is one of my favourite matches ever and I loved the storylines around the nWo driven ones in 96 and 97. But it’s a match that needs a proper build, heels you’re dying to see killed, and proper selling of no frills violence, not people jumping off platforms. However, the argument of “it can’t end until everyone is in so it’s pointless and you should just skip to the end” - guessing none of you watch the Royal Rumble start to finish then? I’m not personally saying War Games is shit or that but just to play devils advocate I think the argument there is that there are stakes in the Rumble match throughout as anyone who goes out can no longer win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 4 hours ago, FUM said: I’m not personally saying War Games is shit or that but just to play devils advocate I think the argument there is that there are stakes in the Rumble match throughout as anyone who goes out can no longer win. Yeah it’s like you wait for 30 guys in before you can start throwing out. They aren’t comparable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted November 30, 2022 16 hours ago, FUM said: I’m not personally saying War Games is shit or that but just to play devils advocate I think the argument there is that there are stakes in the Rumble match throughout as anyone who goes out can no longer win. This is about nailing the psychology element. When one guy can't walk once all 8 or 10 are in because he spent too long in a figure 4, or one guy's a bloody mess slumped in the corner and you count him out for having a say in the finish, there are stakes. It's like saying there aren't stakes in an Iron Man match because nobody will win or lose until the 30/60 minute mark. No, but they can be 3-0 down and need to come back. War Games can do that exactly the same, if you're invested enough to not need a scoreboard spelling out what a disadvantage the good guys need to come back from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted November 30, 2022 @air_raid you’re love for WCW Wargames is great. But that’s not my history. I’m talking about the WWE versions where there’s no stakes, no-one taken out or “injured”. It literally was 30 minutes of people having a dull match in a couple of caged rings. Comparing it to a Royal Rumble and suggesting you skip to the end is dumb, because there are stakes and eliminations throughout. You’ve completely missed the points I and others raised. If anything it shows how the bookers for these matches don’t get the concept either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted November 30, 2022 Author Paid Members Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) Has anyone really said that the Wargames concept is shit because nothing matters until the end? I thought the prevailing opinion is that Wargames has the potential to tell simple, engaging stories throughout, filled with basic psychology of heat and comebacks, yet absolutely none of that occurred on Saturday. From booker, to competitors, to commentators. Nobody seemed particularly bothered about any of that stuff. Just run down, grab some weapons, do some spots, and we’ll nudge Michael Cole again to shout about how nothing matters until the final guy enters. Fitting that people are equating it to the Royal Rumble though because this left the exact same bad taste in my mouth that I’ve had in recent years with the Rumble, particularly this year’s. People just come out. The ring just fills. Then people get eliminated. The end. There’s no attempt to tell an overarching story, build some heat or mix in moments that advance angles or kickstart feuds. It’s just this weird existence in stasis. Empty calories. Fill the time. Remember him? Remember that match type? Remember? Remember? Edited November 30, 2022 by Supremo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted November 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: @air_raid you’re love for WCW Wargames is great. But that’s not my history. I’m talking about the WWE versions where there’s no stakes, no-one taken out or “injured”. It literally was 30 minutes of people having a dull match in a couple of caged rings. Comparing it to a Royal Rumble and suggesting you skip to the end is dumb, because there are stakes and eliminations throughout. You’ve completely missed the points I and others raised. If anything it shows how the bookers for these matches don’t get the concept either. What you said, was nothing to do with WWE's presentation, but the concept. On 11/28/2022 at 12:58 AM, Hannibal Scorch said: Why is no-one talking about what a shit gimmick War Games is? 30 minutes of a match where there are no stakes as nothing can really happen until the last person is in. Absolute bollocks. Your words, yes? On 11/28/2022 at 10:00 AM, BomberPat said: There was a point on commentary in the women's match when Michael Cole said "there's no point going for a pinfall or submission at this stage, because you can only win the match once every member of both teams has entered the cage". Well, yes, you couldn't win the match with a submission, but you could break your opponent's arms and legs so they can't fight back once the match does begin, and why wouldn't you? Gets it. On 11/28/2022 at 10:02 AM, Supremo said: I swear Cole mentioned the match doesn’t start until all participants are in the ring at least a dozen times. It was exhausting and I genuinely can’t understand the logic of him endlessly repeating it. ”NONE OF THIS MATTERS YET! JUST FAST FOWARD!” Gets it. On 11/28/2022 at 11:11 AM, CavemanLynn said: The fact that a lot of people here have focused on that fact no one can win until everyone's in shows how much the point has been missed. It's about how much damage you can do to the opposite team BEFORE the numbers are even and pins become available. As ever, BomberPat hits the nail on the head. The heels should be toying with the outnumbered faces. Holds should be wrenched on without the hope of a rope break or submission. It's ENTIRELY about the valiance of the faces to gut it out, never give up, and keep fighting back no matter the odds. It's another sad indictment of the wrestlers taking more stunt risks for less payoff. Gets it. On 11/28/2022 at 11:38 AM, Loki said: I actually enjoyed both WarGames matches. I agree with @CavemanLynnthat the point is to survive till the bell. I think they could happily cut the 5 minute timer to 3 minutes and tighten the whole thing up, and it would sell the concept a lot more if generally, by the time the bell rings, some people actually HAVE been taken out completely. Gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, Supremo said: Fitting that people are equating it to the Royal Rumble though because this left the exact same bad taste in my mouth that I’ve had in recent years with the Rumble, particularly this year’s. People just come out. The ring just fills. Then people get eliminated. The end. There’s no attempt to tell an overarching story, build some heat or mix in moments that advance angles or kickstart feuds. It’s just this weird existence in stasis. Empty calories. Fill the time. Remember him? Remember that match type? Remember? Remember? This is incredibly true of a lot of Rumbles. The concept itself, when they take into accounts long term feuds and things like that, can be absolutely fucking incredible. But when it feels like it's on auto pilot - surprise entrant, Kofi saves himself, someone comes in and hits their finisher 10 times .. repeat.. - then it's a really tough watch. And it's definitely that lazy approach to booking that can make War Games seem like a pointless concept. It's not. It just needs good booking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 hours ago, air_raid said: What you said, was nothing to do with WWE's presentation, but the concept. Your words, yes? Gets it. Gets it. Gets it. Gets it. So as I said the concept is shit, because the only ones I have seen are WWE's shit attempt (which as I mentioned in my reply, was why your love of the WCW ones is great, and obviously why you have a love for the gimmick. Because you have seen ones which make good use of it.). So, to bring it back on topic, do you think, based purely on the two Wargames matches on this PPV, they were 1) Good matches and 2) Used the gimmick, format and good story telling of prior WCW Wargame matches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 30, 2022 Paid Members Share Posted November 30, 2022 10 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: So, to bring it back on topic, do you think, based purely on the two Wargames matches on this PPV, they were 1) Good matches and 2) Used the gimmick, format and good story telling of prior WCW Wargame matches? I’ll let you know if I ever watch them. 🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/ronda-rousey-pitched-ddt-spot-against-shotzi-admits-and-explains-why-she-fcked-it?utm_source=TW-Fightful&utm_medium=Fightful Wrestling News&utm_campaign=dlvr.it This was an interesting read about Ronda. Gives a bit more context to the match and what was going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.