Keith Houchen Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this? You see a difference between what is rap and what is hip hop? As KRS said “Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live”. Hip hop is the lifestyle. Breaking, graffiti, DJing, beat boxing etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: As KRS said “Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live”. Hip hop is the lifestyle. Breaking, graffiti, DJing, beat boxing etc. He did and he was chatting absolute bollocks 😆 By that definition, nothing has really been hip hop for the past 30 odd years? Nas probably never DJed, so it's not hip hop music? Biggie DEFINITELY never was in to breaking (although I would've liked to have seen him try) so it's not hip hop music? Kendrick Lamar isn't hip hop? Etc. It's rap and not hip hop, is that right? It's an interesting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted March 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 hour ago, wordsfromlee said: Wait until he finds out about covers. Wait until you find out about reading. 2 hours ago, air_raid said: Covers are one thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted March 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted March 10, 2023 I could be wrong, but I think Loki was saying he was into the instrumental side rather than all the rap talking. Not the same, but it does remind me of people saying they like country music, not country and western music, a worthless distinction. What they mean is they like the stuff that isn't sneered at in the music press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: By that definition, nothing has really been hip hop for the past 30 odd years? Sure it has. But the people you mention are rappers. They make rap music, they collaborate with producers to make rap music. Hip hop is more organic and isn’t limited to what records you put out. I’m not saying one is better than the other but there is a distinction. And sure, it leads to snobbish shit that is more suited to punk regarding authenticity. I think that’s what Loki meant but I’m sure he’ll clarify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: Sure it has. But the people you mention are rappers. They make rap music, they collaborate with producers to make rap music. Hip hop is more organic and isn’t limited to what records you put out. I’m not saying one is better than the other but there is a distinction. And sure, it leads to snobbish shit that is more suited to punk regarding authenticity. I think that’s what Loki meant but I’m sure he’ll clarify. Yeah, I completely disagree with that to be honest, and I don't think there is a distinction and by that definition the only hip hop act of the last 20 odd years would be Jurassic 5 probably, but like I said, interesting one. Take KRS for example, now I do like big old Kris, but he is 100% someone that tries to distinguish between what is 'real hip hop' and what is not as a snobbish thing, hence that bloody cringe phrase he came up with. Its to disparage what he deems not 'real' and hey, he's the Blastmaster! He's obviously a lot better placed to say than I. But I don't agree. As a quick aside, I do love KRS but I term it "finger wag rap" as it always sounds like he's telling me off. And he is, as I'm the white devil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Yeah, I completely disagree with that to be honest, and I don't think there is a distinction and by that definition the only hip hop act of the last 20 odd years would be Jurassic 5 probably, but like I said, interesting one Mainstream act, perhaps, but that’s kind of the point. Hip hop has always had that DIY element that you get as ground level so to speak. You don’t get that in the top of the range studio with production and producers that costs a fortune. There’s a whole host of underground acts that are hip hop collectives. Just because we haven’t heard of them doesn’t mean they aren’t there. If hip hop was a keffer, it would be a Merzbow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted March 10, 2023 42 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: He did and he was chatting absolute bollocks 😆 By that definition, nothing has really been hip hop for the past 30 odd years? Nas probably never DJed, so it's not hip hop music? Biggie DEFINITELY never was in to breaking (although I would've liked to have seen him try) so it's not hip hop music? Kendrick Lamar isn't hip hop? Etc. It's rap and not hip hop, is that right? It's an interesting one. What's odd about that is that, when I started being curious about it, and asked about newer acts, people kept telling me "Well, they're rap - nobody's really done hip-hop for ages". Same people did tell me it was a cultural thing more than a music thing. To see this debate come up is intriguing, as I've not heard a different side before, so never thought it was in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 big vibes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Rappers rap. Some of them produce beats, some don't. Some hiphop has rapping over the top, some doesn't. Hiphop =/= rap, for me at least. For example, Jazz Liberatorz are a hiphop act. They work with various different rappers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, Loki said: Rappers rap. Some of them produce beats, some don't. Some hiphop has rapping over the top, some doesn't. Hiphop =/= rap, for me at least. For example, Jazz Liberatorz are a hiphop act. They work with various different rappers. I still don't agree, but fair enough. Maybe I'm just so used to interchangeably using rap and hip hop, and that I've always viewed the "rap is not the same as hip hop" viewpoint as massively snobbish by people who don't want others to think they listen to rap for some reason (I'm not saying that's what you're doing here by the way) Potatos Potatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted March 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 minute ago, SuperBacon said: Potatos Potatoes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 10, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted March 10, 2023 17 minutes ago, Loki said: Rappers rap. Some of them produce beats, some don't. Some hiphop has rapping over the top, some doesn't. Hiphop =/= rap, for me at least. For example, Jazz Liberatorz are a hiphop act. They work with various different rappers. 3 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: I still don't agree, but fair enough. Maybe I'm just so used to interchangeably using rap and hip hop, and that I've always viewed the "rap is not the same as hip hop" viewpoint as massively snobbish by people who don't want others to think they listen to rap for some reason (I'm not saying that's what you're doing here by the way) Potatos Potatoes. One thing that does come to mind is lo-fi hip-hop - almost never has any lyrics over it, barring spoken samples it's usually instrumental. But I suspect there are those who'd say it's not really hip-hop either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted March 10, 2023 Moderators Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Potatos Potatoes. Nope. You are right and they are both wrong. And KRS one talks a lot of old shite. Edited March 10, 2023 by Chest Rockwell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) Instrumental hiphop isn't rap because there's nobody rapping on it. Rap is the vocal delivery. You can rap over Mozart and it won't be hiphop. And rap as a style predates hiphop. This isn't some weird me thing, I'm fairly sure this is the usual musical definition. Edit: @SuperBaconas per your example, Kendrick Lamarr is a rapper. So anything he raps over is rap music, and I'd imagine 99% of that is hiphop. But him rapping over it isn't what makes it hiphop. Using the terms interchangeably is fine given how much overlap there is. I personally am into the beats and the rapping is a nice element of some hiphop that I listen to, but it's not the main reason I listen. I'm not listening and critiquing the rapper's flow, put it that way. Generally I buy and play instrumental hiphop for preference. Edited March 10, 2023 by Loki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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