The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[DCW]

I can understand why Bron and wrestlers in general do/overdo the fake tan. I've no idea why Heyman has done the same, unless he's using it's aroma to attempt to mask the bang of body odor that I always imagined he honks of. 

HHH being unable to book babyfaces isn't surprising, as he was always shite at playing one himself. He loved having his cake and eating it by being a tweener, and now he's using this expertise to make Rollins even more insufferable which is some achievement. 

[TheScarlettChad]

Seth isn't a tweener though. He's a full blown heel,. which makes this whole holding the mic up to hear the crowd say Freakin, so fucking bizarre.

 

[RedTwoster]

1 hour ago, Supremo said:

Maybe it’ll blow away expectations, but if I was coming off that Wrestlemania season, and all the bad press? I’d be looking to impress. My next pay per view would not feature Gunther vs. McAfee, Jey Uso vs. Logan Paul, with John Cena vs. Randy Orton as the headliner.

I have to admit, I’m more intrigued by this weird line-up than I was for anything at Wrestlemania outside of Cena/Rhodes. We won’t be getting an AEW-style thrill ride as far as the matches are concerned, but I kind of like the idea of a show that’s led by novelty matches, even if the ceiling for some of these are far as quality is concerned is likely to be ‘adequate’. As long as it ends up being fun, I’ll be happy. When the competition is Double or Nothing, likely containing Hangman/Ospreay and Mone/Hayter, you’re as well as to do something completely different as you’re not going to win on match quality. I’m all for a bit of weirdness. 

[Supremo]

Cody is an interesting one to look back on.

When he started displaying heel tendencies during the Owen feud (have I mentioned Kevin was right?), I assumed it was indicative of supreme confidence. This was a hot-as-hell, tight-as-fuck company, who could safely play with babyface and heel dynamics. You could trust they knew what they were doing, or had the ability to react cleverly if things didn’t go as planned.

Turns out that was probably just the first indicator of cracks starting to form. Fast forward six months and Cody’s being outsmarted and beaten by a scrawny streak of piss with a replica belt and the reanimated corpse of John Cena.

Cody’s a huge Sting guy, isn’t he? Maybe him mentioning Sting’s lack of tan at Starrcade ‘97 was a CLUE of where things are going. In the current landscape, he’d be best off going into the rafters for the majority of Cena’s Title run.

Chuck the Stardust face paint on, sit in the darkness for eight months, have a nice cold pint, and wait for all of this to blow over. Climb back down in December, when The Rock and Gerwirtz are booking, beat Cena for the belt on his final night and save pro-wrestling.

[thatvinylgeek]

1 hour ago, DavidB6937 said:

There's barely any difference beyond they're now with Heyman.

...even Heyman was/is super over though.

Maybe if they had established Heyman and Seth as actually bonafide heels before Bron turned it might have helped, but essentially they were still carrying on their feud and behaviour from pre-mania and then someone with a super over move aligned themselves and we are suddenly expected to boo them all. They could have attacked Jey and Sammi's feel good moment last week, that may have had more chance of getting the right reaction...possibly.

Sure the crowd could buy into it more and when they got all dastardly on Sammi gone along with it, but the super spear is too over, If Bron wants the heat, he should tease it and not deliver, do the full run around the ring only to flip off the fans at the end, if they love the move, don't give it to them whilst your a heel.

[thatvinylgeek]

One other thought..I think there is a an over saturation for forced fan interaction with every wrestler, which might also be hurting the heels.

It's almost like when they are putting the package of any new talent together they say "and what are we going to give them for the crowd to sing along with and shout during their matches".

Then they are surprised when people carry on doing the thing they have been programmed to do when they don't want them to do it anymore...at this rate It'll be a new feature in WWE 2K26, choose move-set, choose taunts, choose where you want the "woah woah" to be in your music

[TheScarlettChad]

This'll be controversial but other than his spear, I find Bron a bit shit. His look is awful too, at least that bronzer he was wearing. 

[CL Punk]

5 hours ago, Supremo said:

 

Fucking clown.

Stuff like this make you think that Seth really likes Leto's Joker.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

It all goes back to Cena vs Cody, a match I always thought was stupid as it put fans in a position to root against their top babyface. Made worse by Cena's turn, which was so ridiculous in its timing that nobody bought into it and fans just disinvested in the storyline, opening the doors for them going into business for themselves again. That and everything else that's been mentioned in here and they've only got themselves to blame.

Seth Rollins is fucking shite. Can't believe we're still doing this ten years later.

[air_raid]

1 hour ago, Supremo said:

I hope you made that yourself.

[LaGoosh]

2 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

They've stopped bothering to put the connective tissue on storylines together, as they're not booking for TV anymore, they're booking for social. Which means there's no real connection to the audience, which means the crowd response is wonky as they just want what they've been conditioned to want... the cool spots and singalongs they see on Instagram and TikTok.

I also think that fundamentally if you constantly remind your audience that everything they are seeing is fake like WWE does currently then over time it's going to affect how your audience perceives and reacts to it.

[d-d-d-dAz]

1 minute ago, LaGoosh said:

I also think that fundamentally if you constantly remind your audience that everything they are seeing is fake like WWE does currently then over time it's going to affect how your audience perceives and reacts to it.

Yeah, that was one of my other points in my earlier rant too.

They're constantly telling us it's fake AND telling us we're stupid for caring.

It feels a bit like the bloom is off the rose with Triple H a bit and actually he dislikes wrestling fans just as much as the old man did, albeit for slightly different reasons.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BomberPat said:

And with Heyman in particular, it wasn't Rollins who "turned" in that match, it was Heyman who sided with him. Michael Cole was trying to sell Seth Rollins accepting a steel chair from Paul Heyman and using it to beat up his opponents was the most diabolical thing he could possibly have done, but moments earlier he had no problem with either CM Punk or Roman Reigns being prepared to do exactly the same thing. 

I said this at the time, and feel vindicated that general forum correct person BomberPat has said so too. It wasn't a heel turn, it was just a new alliance. One that may prove to be dangerous, we just can't be sure.

That said, Meltzer said it earlier -and he's right - if they're doing that to Sami Zayn, that's trouble. He's the best babyface in the company, arguably the US, but these fans just want their cool stuff

 

Quote

There is a direct correlation between good booking and the fans, “playing along.” Give them a solid product with good, well-written characters they can invest in and react to earnestly, and you’ll get reactions to match. Start putting out bad, messy storylines, with inconsistent characters and the fans will start, “reacting wrong,” and entertaining themselves.

This is undervalued, I think. I just watched back when Kyle Fletcher turned on Will Osprey, the fans were booing loud. That was absolutely the story that was well built , but I also think some of it was not doing a spectacular "one more time" style spot to do it.  I partly blame Brock for this, but heels in the WWE keep turning by just hitting their finish, and then when people call for one more time they do it one more time. If you want to get Bronn Brekker booed, have him do the massive run up, but then instead of spearing someone, keep running whilst flipping off the fans. Don't give them what they want.

For all Chris Jericho's faults, at least he realised with this learning tree heel turn that he needed to drop Judas.

Edited April 29, 2025 by Duke

[SwayWays]

As much credit as trips has gotten, wasn't a lot of the cody finishing his story arch started under Vince? 

 

WWE has had a lot of positive changes, but it's also brought a lot of negativity and them. It's been said, everyone knows the business is a work - so when they push their netflix behind the scenes crap, that we shouldnt be so whiney. 

And yet, if when I was watching breaking bad they had a little in video of Brian Cranston pop up, saying "watch how we do the behind the scenes shit" is find it incredibly jarring. Especially for wrestling whose main fuel for enjoyment is ran of the suspension of belief - it just feels a bit of spitting in the face, of the hand that feeds it. They want compliance now, not fandom.

 

Watch this match nudge nudge... They don't really hate each other, pretending to fight for this prop belt. But also pay $700 for a replica and only praise us on social media and not want behind the scene details or plot stuff  like people do with other forms of entertainment we desperately want to be considered with. 

Edited April 29, 2025 by SwayWays

[DavidB6937]

The behind the scenes stuff shouldn't be an issue, whether it's social media or documentaries or whatever. We all know it's not real anyway. Who cares?

It's about the quality of the product and a willingness to invest in it regardless. Absolutely no different to any other form of entertainment.

I really don't see there being any impact on audiences by having writer documentaries or whatever else. All people need is an enjoyable product with characters they can get behind or boo against. Once the booking gets muddled or half arsed then that's where the problems start.

Whoever earlier said Rollins is a clear heel - definitely not. And he hasn't been for quite a while. If they want him to be then they need to work a lot more different with his character and motivations and behaviour. Same with Bron. He hasn't been an out and out heel for a while.

That's not to say there isn't room for multi dimensional characters. Obviously there is but there's a difference between writing them like that and not just being able to write characters properly as good guys or bad guys so you end up with a muddled mess.

If your product is strong and you've given everyone good characters to follow then no one is going to give a flying fuck that there's a documentary on Netflix after.