The Official UKFF RAW thread (part 2)...

[d-d-d-dAz]

13 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I would like to see less long term storytelling personally. When done well obviously it's great, but too many fans (and promoters) equate long with good. Most wrestling stories should be relatively short in my opinion. Long term stories often lead to matches being held off for the sake of dragging stuff out. Just trim the fat and have a banging 1-3 month story. Not everything needs to run 6-12 (or more) months. Short stories combined with long term character development should be the sweet spot.

I think this is right too, I think its a broad church with room for lots of types of stories to be told. But I think crucially, there has to be a commitment to actually telling stories as opposed to just chasing vanity metrics on social.

The Rock/Cena turn clearly hadn't been thought out and wasn't intended to be followed up, it was just spaffed out because they wanted some impressive Instagram figures and because Ari Emmanuel clearly wasn't confident in the booking of Elimination Chamber.

That's what I have an issue with. They have to follow things up, however basically. They have to treat this as a storytelling driven TV show, as opposed to series of disconnected high spots and segments designed to pop a digital audience.

All it would have taken with The Rock would have been some acknowledgement that Cena has loathed the fans for years but because he's such a company man, a succession of senior people have convinced him to swallow it because that's what was good for business; but in that moment Cody so offended The Rock, he finally got a nod from a board member to be his real self. And then go from there. It's not great but at least it'd be an attempt to make sense of the product they're trying to convince us to buy.

I appreciate I'm being a soft sod, but I hate that they have such little respect for the audience that watches regularly that they don't feel the need to even make sense of one of the biggest angles they've ever done. It's maddening.

Edited April 23, 2025 by d-d-d-dAz

[Supremo]

Best episode of Raw this year.

For at least three or four weeks, Wrestlemania felt like a contractual obligation that they needed to get past in order to do a hard reset. That’s exactly what this show was and it was infinitely more enjoyable for it.

First heel promo from John Cena that actually felt effective. Being a dickhead to the announcer and counting down the dates until he leaves were great touches. Love the new No Frills Titan Tron, too. Maybe this will work, after all. Whole thing feels like it’s back on track and they’re doing what was actually planned, rather than trying to re-write and pivot around The Rock’s bullshit.

Heel John Cena getting, “We Are Sorry!” chants from the crowd. Brilliant. You either die the hated babyface or see yourself live long enough to be the heel they apologise to.

No spinner belt though? Cowards!

Orton vs. Cena headlining a pay per view in 2025 sounds fucking horrendous , but if it’s ever doing to work it’s with these new heel/face dynamics, in Orton’s home town. I can’t deny I’m intrigued to see it. Check out Orton’s old school trunks leading into this.

It leaves no doubt about the finish. John Cena is going down to ultimate finisher, The Overdrive!

The Wrestlemania Main Event ended the way it did because Cody Rhodes couldn’t pull the trigger and be a bad guy. He refused to be corrupted. He needs someone to help him see the dark side. I am pitching Karrion Kross and Cody Rhodes as the next Mega Powers.

Becky Lynch immediately losing the belts and turning heel didn’t make much sense. Wasn’t at all surprised to hear reports that it was Becky’s idea. She’s a moron. I hope the next WWE Netflix documentary is Becky bumping into CM Punk after tweeting about him and Roxanne Perez.

Rusev looked great. What do you think happens first? A clean job or another cuckhold fantasy played out on national TV?

Pat McAfee shouting, “speak English!” to Raquel Rodriguez, after the MAGA week they’ve had? Grim. Gunther fucking him up was the ultimate babyface move. I hope he goes back to doing American Football or something. Business Casual Big Joe Tess was the ultimate upgrade.

Sami Zayn back, being a normal, emotionally mature man, telling Jey he’s proud and loves him! Hell yeah! Sorely missed. Exactly what Jey needed. Exactly what this company needed. Sami’s the guy. Always has been. I’ll never recover if my boy turns heel.

Dirty Dom looks the business with the Intercontinental Title. Modern day Honky Tonk Man. I hope he breaks records.

Really disappointed Seth Rollins didn’t use this storyline advancement to debut a new look and/or music. Whopper’s probably terrified. What does he have, if not the bells and whistles? Jury is out on whether Heyman can make this work. History doesn’t bode well. What’s the collective noun for losers that Heyman did nothing for? A gaggle of Curtis Axels? A flock of Cesaros? A pride of Rybacks?

Breakker looked awesome. Bonkers hearing so many people saying that Bron needs to be positioned as an equal to Seth Rollins right out of the gate. No way. He needs to be Batista. Give him eighteen months being the Heavy Goon, who eventually turns babyface and destroys everyone. He’ll be the biggest star in the sport.

Can’t argue with the direction though. A big heel faction is what created this boom in the first place, so it makes all the sense in the world to try it again. Roman and Punk being forced to tag? Loads more side-eye memes? Delicious! Plus, you assume the end game will be Sami, Jimmy and Jey helping out, with an inevitable match between The Original Bloodline and the Lynx Africa Alliance.

Good stuff everywhere. Free of the dark shadow of The Rock and Wrestlemania, this was an excellent Season Opener. Really positive for Hunter. Surely nothing could ruin it? The Rock wouldn’t appear on a podcast the very same night to drop the Passive Aggressive Elbow, would he?

Edited April 23, 2025 by Supremo

[Devon Malcolm]

I'm fuming, personally. After a dull Wrestlemania and weeks of absolute tedium I was ready to move on with my life - and then they did that Raw. Absolute wankers, the lot of them.

Cena was terrific, the best work he's done yet since returning. His point about the crowds and Cody was outstanding and could be echoed for so many others. Orton's not getting the belt off him but I'm going to enjoy the very slow match they have watching him try.

I have absolutely no idea why Lyra and Becky dropped the belts already and why Becky's turned heel already, but I'm guessing it will be a 'you beat me, I respect you now' thing that they do too much of in wrestling. Match was just superb though again. The Morgan Miracle continues and Lyra's selling is magnificent.

Has Maxine always been able to cut a promo? It's a shame we don't do managers anymore because with mic work like that they could have had something. I hope for Rusev's sake he gets more to do than Andrade. I can't even remember if I liked him outside of the tank.

Stephanie Vaquer though. What a star. Iyo Sky has an actual watchable match. Coincidence? Noooooooooo. This was great. I was wondering what they were doing with Roxanne after the Rumble and, to be honest, I still don't know. But her and Vaquer on Raw, yes ta. Giulia? She's not ready, lads. But I like her hair.

The Jey Uso video was lovely. The crowd thought Sami was turning on him. Mugs. Nice guy Sami would never do anything like that. I hope the cunt behind him in the crowd with the Israel flag was thrown out.

Did you hear that pop for Karrion Kross? That's what I'm talking about. Swear some more! 

Gunther going mental was excellent, just exactly how they needed to use him again. Just have him come out every week and muller someone until he gets transferred to Smackdown and we can see him against Jacob Fatu. You heard it here first. Thank me later.

The final segment was excellent. Rollins and stables does bring me out in hives after the whole Authority shit - but it's Bron Breakker in a main event spot. I don't know where this goes next but in a good way.

As a sidenote, the Bloodline was the best wrestling storyline ever.

Can Smackdown at least be shit. I've got so much work.

[air_raid]

Random question from a reformed casual - when/how did Gable become divorced from American Alpha? Was it just draft bollocks?

[The King of Old School]

8 hours ago, Supremo said:

 

The Wrestlemania Main Event ended the way it did because Cody Rhodes couldn’t pull the trigger and be a bad guy. He refused to be corrupted. He needs someone to help him see the dark side. 

 

I found it odd though considering that Cody was in the exact same position against Owens on SNME and used the chair anyway, why would he be conflicted here?

27 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Random question from a reformed casual - when/how did Gable become divorced from American Alpha? Was it just draft bollocks?

Do you mean Alpha Academy? They were losers so he traded them in for The Creed Brothers. They did the whole bully angle where he slapped them about and Otis eventually stood up to him.

On Heymans new group, I hope they sign Jeff Cobb and team him with Bronson Reed to add to the group.

Edited April 24, 2025 by The King of Old School

[Arch Stanton]

26 minutes ago, air_raid said:

Random question from a reformed casual - when/how did Gable become divorced from American Alpha? Was it just draft bollocks?

They did an angle where he was consistently berating them and belittling them for losing all the time, until Otis had enough of it and finally fought back, sticking up for himself and the others. It does feel weird that the rest of the group carried on as Alpha Academy once Gable left though.

[air_raid]

1 hour ago, Arch Stanton said:

It does feel weird that the rest of the group carried on as Alpha Academy once Gable left though.

That's exactly what prompted my question, until I grasped that Otis & Tozawa were babyfaces I was starting to think it was an "nWo B-Team" deal where Gable and the Creeds get to wear red and black t-shirts and Otis/Akira are Stevie Ray and Vincent. But sadly clearly not.

Edited April 24, 2025 by air_raid
Standing next to a mountain

[RedTwoster]

Another solid show, but the crowd was driving me nuts all night. There was someone on here - I forget who (sorry!) who I’m had been insisting WWE had an engagement problem, with fans not reacting as you’d want. I pushed back on that a little and said that’s how modern crowds are; and while I still think it’s a more far-reaching phenomenon, I was wrong for suggesting it wasn’t a problem.

When you have the new heel group assaulting beloved baby face Sami Zayn to chants of ‘one more time’, that’s a big fucking issue. It spoils what should have been an effective angle; although perhaps they booked themselves into that position by having Sami not come across as sincere in congratulating Jey last week.

Then again, Seth also got away with assaulting Roman Reigns in quite a brutal way, and for doing similar to Punk. I honestly think they could have him curb stomp a toddler, and it would get ironic cheers. Same goes for Breakker, who was obviously the recipient of the ‘one more time’ chant. 

They need to make some big tweaks to Seth’s act if this is to have a chance of working. Change his music. Lose the catchphrases and the ‘Freakin’. Have Breakker stop barking. Make Seth behave noticeably different from his previous babyface character. Perhaps even draft in a wrestler like Logan Paul; someone who the fans are guaranteed to boo. 

I was pleased to see Vaquer, Perez and Giulia all turn up again this week - I’d assumed at least one of them, likely Vaquer, would remain in NXT. I really hope that Smackdown also gets an injection of fresh female talent. If WWE does sign Mariah May - and I hope they fail in that quest - I’d be perfectly happy to see her end up as a top star on the blue brand.

I liked the Rusev promo, and it was nice to see him essentially bring The Redeemer character to WWE. It’s a good idea that still has potential. I hope he makes it work.

Great babyface promo from McAfee too. He annoys the tits off me as a commentator these days, but I can’t pretend I’m not intrigued by the idea of him facing Gunther.

[d-d-d-dAz]

2 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

Another solid show, but the crowd was driving me nuts all night. There was someone on here - I forget who (sorry!) who I’m had been insisting WWE had an engagement problem, 

3 minutes ago, RedTwoster said:

When you have the new heel group assaulting beloved baby face Sami Zayn to chants of ‘one more time’, that’s a big fucking issue. It spoils what should have been an effective angle;

Yeah, the 'one more time' has become a pernicious feature of an audience that just wants to see cool stuff.

The audience have been emotionally walled off from the talent. They now watch the shows as if they're watching Reels on their phone, as opposed to watching a live drama show.

I think there's loads of reasons for that;

- The fact that the mini-boom period filled the WWE audiences with more casual fans who are just responding to what they're presented, with no longstanding emotional connection to particular wrestlers or desire to care because they love wrestling so much.

- The fact that everything is booked for big moments, singalongs and Instagram Reels. It rewards short attention spans and sometimes even discourages trying to care on a deeper level.

- The constant stream of 'it's not real, lads' content the WWE pumps out. I know everyone knows it's not real, but having it forced down your throat that you shouldn't even bother suspending disbelief can't be good for audience connection. In the last few weeks alone, we've had Triple H say everyones an idiot if they try to care; The Rock tweet how it's all fake and you're an idiot if you care; The Rock do a warts and all interview on Pat McAffee's show; multiple trailers for a documentary about a writers room and a load of social media content showing Triple H co-ordinating Mania.

I just think they're repeatedly signalling to audiences not to care, and with a high proportion of newer fans at stadiums they don't know anything different, so (rightly) are just responding to the product they're being served.

I think the reason that complete emotional disconnection is less of a feature of other companies shows, or less noticeable all the bloody time, is there is a bigger concentration of people like us who've been fans a long time and actively want to care. We have the historical context that wrestling is better with an emotional connection.

 

 

 

[Supremo]

“Seth, we know you’re a complete dullard as a shoot, so always feel the need to dress like a whacky student on Freshers Week, to pretend you have a personality. But this is a big one. We’re making you the head of the company’s big heel faction. Don’t undermine it by looking too much like a dickhead, okay?”

Fucking clown.

[digforvictory]

It'll be interesting to see how Cody Rhodes is treated when he returns. I thought him getting booed over Wrestlemania weekend was just a one off Vegas crowd thing, international smark heavy fans probably, but then it sounds like Raw last night was in front of another very smarky crowd.

For a good 2 or 3 years the WWE audiences have generally cheered all the babyfaces and booed all the heels but in the last few weeks something has changed. I don't think you'd get fans chanting "one more time" as Sami Zayn was being destroyed a few months ago, but yesterday they did.

I do wonder if as others have said, too much talk of behind the scenes stuff on camera since the move to Netflix has encouraged this? 

[d-d-d-dAz]

They're not smarks. It's not the same as it used to be, people hijacking shows to cheer their actual favourites at the expense of what they were being presented (against their will).

This is a group of people that just want to see the sort of Instagram Reels they watch each week. They want 15" bursts of excitement they can film and sing along too. They'll sing Seth's song, then they'll sing Sami's song, then they'll 'ooh' when Sami hits a zinger... but for the most part they'll sit on their hands for the actual storytelling, just to perk up when Sami gets his head stoved in.

I wonder if that's the thing. I wonder if going to Raw has become like a game of Pokemon Go. You know those 15" are coming, so that's what gets you excited as you can quickly get your phone out and film your own social reel. Big moments? Gotta catch em all.

On the actual wrestling, I hope they rush to the point where Breakker smashes Rollins and we just do a Heyman/Bron run. Seth is back to being shite.

Also, they should definitely put the consolation title on Logan Paul. They way he nearly dislocated his eye sockets rolling his eyes after the big Yeet? Real.

Edited April 29, 2025 by d-d-d-dAz

[RedTwoster]

19 minutes ago, digforvictory said:

It'll be interesting to see how Cody Rhodes is treated when he returns. I thought him getting booed over Wrestlemania weekend was just a one off Vegas crowd thing, international smark heavy fans probably, but then it sounds like Raw last night was in front of another very smarky crowd.

For a good 2 or 3 years the WWE audiences have generally cheered all the babyfaces and booed all the heels but in the last few weeks something has changed. I don't think you'd get fans chanting "one more time" as Sami Zayn was being destroyed a few months ago, but yesterday they did.

I do wonder if as others have said, too much talk of behind the scenes stuff on camera since the move to Netflix has encouraged this? 

I don’t think so, people have always been aware of real life happenings, and although thats led to ‘protest’ reactions (eg. Boo-tista, fans turning on Reigns, Punk getting booed in AEW), I don’t think it’s responsible for this. I mean, people are well aware that The Last of Us, Game of Thrones and Succession are fake; but you still have characters being despised. Similarly, you have people sympathising with villains and turning on ‘good guys’.

I think it’s a combination of iffy booking and the performers not doing enough to turn the audience. What about Seth and Breakker was different last night? What has Rollins done as of yet that is actually reprehensible? Turning on Sami was clearly supposed to be the start of that; but he’d already assaulted Roman and Punk in much more brutal ways and remained babyface. Why would the audience think this is any different?

[air_raid]

On 4/23/2025 at 11:58 PM, Supremo said:

Free of the dark shadow of The Rock

2 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

a writers room

1 hour ago, digforvictory said:

the move to Netflix

SPOILERS : Stranger Things S5 finale revealed ;

Edited April 29, 2025 by air_raid
The picture sucks, so the joke probably sucks too.

[LaGoosh]

...is that an AI pic?

WE HAVE RULES HERE