The Gaffer Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 minute ago, BomberPat said: Is it selling a ticket? Is anyone tuning in to watch because of it? Is it making you want to see his babyface opponent beat him? If the answer to all of those questions is "no", then it's not heat. Being a heel isn't just permission to be a dickhead with impunity. And if the only way you can think to play heel - to a child, especially - is to give them the middle finger or swear at them, then you're not a good heel. I've never for the life of me understood this literalism that wrestling pundits come out with. Especially these days, where it's the product itself that draws. The product is a sum total of all performers, angles, production aesthetic, branding etc. How the top heel carries himself outside the company almost certainly plays in to that. Now admittedly I'm already a fan, and fair enough if he's not your bag, but I don't think this one instance is the only way he knows how to be a heel either. He seems fairly good at it. This has likely added another section of fans in the live arenas who on another week might have cheered him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Wrestling is so weird as at that you are generally meeting the character and not the person who plays mjf. It’s out of line none the less to act that way to a child. I’m sure an adult can would embrace it as the experience. Wrong move on a kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 I wish I could say I'm surprised that so many people fail to understand why swearing at a 7 year old child is wrong, but I'm really not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeRobertsParoleOfficer Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 20 hours ago, Carbomb said: That reminds me of that indy promoter back in the day having a big blow-up with Samoa Joe. This was back when Kenny Omega was still on the circuit, and was nowhere near his current level - he was main-eventing for this indy promotion, and Joe as the guest star just jobbed him out, apparently gave him nothing at all. When the promoter called him out on it, saying that he didn't ask Joe to put him over, just to give him a bit of a rub, Joe apparently told him that he should've known that that's what you're asking for when you book Samoa Joe. Load of bollocks. Total horseshit attitude. The wrestler is a paid contractor, he should do within resosn what is asked or at least stick to the theme. If he doesn't do it I'd withold his pay, or only pay a percentage. Hate this fucking sense of entitlement. Promoters can and will be dicks but they are the ones paying the salary. If a wrestler doesn't like it don't work indies or for a promoter. Theyll soon go hungry when the phone stops. As for flipping the kid off. Cunt thing to do. This isn't 1977 in kayfabe world whereby wrestlers would kick a kid to protect the business, its 2020. I think some wrestlers use the gimmick as an excuse for their antics/behaviour. Utter shit. Wrestling is physical theater, its acting. They werent at a show Where's its part of the 'act'.  Even steiner is good with kids. He's a dad FFs and knows the score. Let's see how he'd fair if he walked down the street like that..... Get the shit kicked out of him I'd wager. Brets scenario is also totally different. It was tv and the show, Not backstage and 'real' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_3165 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: I wish I could say I'm surprised that so many people fail to understand why swearing at a 7 year old child is wrong, but I'm really not. I wouldn't say people don't see the problem. Just that if you know the character and the fact he plays it at these things you'd prob not take a 7 year old to meet him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said: I wouldn't say people don't see the problem. Just that if you know the character and the fact he plays it at these things you'd prob not take a 7 year old to meet him. He's a wrestler. He's an actor. He's not actually that person. Heel wrestlers for decades have found ways of reacting to kids without swearing at them and still maintained their heel persona. If that's the best he can come up with then he's clearly not very good at his job and also a huge twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 31 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Is it selling a ticket? Is anyone tuning in to watch because of it? Is it making you want to see his babyface opponent beat him? If the answer to all of those questions is "no", then it's not heat. Yeah, he is one of the reasons I watch AEW and order their shows. I’d also go to a live event because of him and other members of the roster. I thought it was funny. While I can see why other people don’t like swearing at kids, I think it’s fine.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: He's an actor. He's not actually that person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 33 minutes ago, Michael_3165 said: I wouldn't say people don't see the problem. Just that if you know the character and the fact he plays it at these things you'd prob not take a 7 year old to meet him. I took my nephew with me when I met Robert Englund at a convention. I certainly wouldn't have expected Englund to start acting like a creepy child killer to my nephew. And he didn't. He actually asked him if he'd seen any of the movies, and upon the little man replying to the negative he said "Good, you're too young! Plenty of time to enjoy them when you're older." This is a case of someone hiding behind their "character" to try and justify being a knob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) There's also ways of remaining in character when meeting fans and not being a dick about it. I've seen heels manage it plenty of times at indie shows while working merch. I've sat with heels having full-blown in-character conversations with kids without doing anything to upset that child. Kids' TV and movies are full of villains who somehow manage to be villainous towards children without ever sticking a middle finger in their face or swearing at them. Wrestling is no different. What this tells me about MJF is that not only is he not inventive enough to come up with anything better than swearing, he's also too unprofessional to regulate his behaviour. Which - if this were a smaller show, and I were the promoter - would make me consider whether I would want to book him on family-friendly shows, and at AEW's level, should give them cause to think whether he's the person they should have doing public appearances and meet and greets. David's spot-on - being a heel isn't a free pass to behave like a dickhead all the time. Edited March 6, 2020 by BomberPat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 minute ago, BomberPat said: Kids' TV and movies are full of villains who somehow manage to be villainous towards children without ever sticking a middle finger in their face or swearing at them. Wrestling is no different.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 minute ago, BomberPat said: Which - if this were a smaller show, and I were the promoter - would make me consider whether I would want to book him on family-friendly shows, and at AEW's level, should give them cause to think whether he's the person they should have doing public appearances and meet and greets. They aren’t family orientated though? WWE are already smashing it in that area and have a huge amount of content out. I got a six and a half year old, I don’t watch AEW with him because they sometimes swear or bleed a bit. I just watch the one that’s suitable for kids. I’d probably let him watch it in a couple years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 48 minutes ago, Devon Malcolm said: He's a wrestler. He's an actor. He's not actually that person. While I'm with you generally, I dispute this bit. He's not just an actor. He's a living, breathing persona. I like how much he gets that. Someone with that level of dedication can be more creative than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: They aren’t family orientated though? WWE are already smashing it in that area and have a huge amount of content out. I got a six and a half year old, I don’t watch AEW with him because they sometimes swear or bleed a bit. I just watch the one that’s suitable for kids. I’d probably let him watch it in a couple years They aren't and if this was someone complaining about going to the show and seeing this behaviour, I don't think anyone would complain. Away from the shows though, whether it's meet and greets or whatever, it's completely different. He doesn't have to suddenly be something else but there's still an expected level of behaviour, especially if he's on company duty. There always has been. There have always been people who'll go over the line (looking at you, Randall). There'll always be bad press if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted March 6, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted March 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: While I'm with you generally, I dispute this bit. He's not just an actor. He's a living, breathing persona. I like how much he gets that. Someone with that level of dedication can be more creative than this. But he's still an actor. I don't know him too well but if he seems like he's doing the wrestling version of Method acting then he needs to learn where to draw the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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