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How did it end up like this (brit wres scene)


Kfogg1991

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I just think you got worked, personally. I don't follow PROGRESS closely (I cant support a product with a fan base who often use the word 'graps') but surely the whole PUNK ROCK PRO WRESTLING was just a marketing slogan.

Progress and ICW were both seen as these cool outsider indies for a bit but of course they got into bed with WWE at the first sniff of some cash and exposure. Why wouldn't they?

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19 hours ago, BrodyGraham said:

Yeah, I saw Mike from HXC at a PCW show, just before Progress ran the Ritz. It completely fucked him over and there was no way he was gonna find another venue in Central Manchester.

Gutting actually, Mike took me to my first show in exchange for me and my buddy working the Extreme Central stall at a Broxbourne FWA show. 

Does anyone know if he's still around the business?

He's a top guy. He's still doing club promoting but hasn't had anything to do with wrestling since the evening with Raven / Tommy Dreamer nights (which are well worth watching) 

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26 minutes ago, Ironic Indie Lad said:

I just think you got worked, personally. I don't follow PROGRESS closely (I cant support a product with a fan base who often use the word 'graps') but surely the whole PUNK ROCK PRO WRESTLING was just a marketing slogan.

Progress and ICW were both seen as these cool outsider indies for a bit but of course they got into bed with WWE at the first sniff of some cash and exposure. Why wouldn't they?

To an extent, yeah - but in their early days especially they did genuinely back some aspects of it up with how they went about things, which was one of the reasons they were able to cultivate such a "cult" following that'll defend them to the death, even now. It's simple enough to see why some people would grow attached to the whole mantra of it much further than it just being a marketing slogan to print onto t-shirts.

Playing in rock venues (The Garage, Electric Ballroom, Ritz etc) as opposed to your leisure hall and sports centres, having their wrestlers come out to punk rock/metal/rock songs (I know this sounds like a really small thing to pick up on, but you compare the entrances and atmosphere created when they had guys come out to their own music compared to now where everyone has generic as fuck music with zero crowd involvement), booking almost two years of their "boom" period around a bloke who went around threatening to cut people's ears off and the style of merchandising/graphics/design all combined to create a vibe that was certainly more than just a marketing phrase. 

Of course, it all goes back to the argument of not knocking the guys involved for taking the WWE paydays, but I think it extends beyond more than people being "worked" by a company that had genuinely managed to carve out an engaging, exciting and fresh imagine within the British wrestling scene. 

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Surely the venues, the merch style, the violence, the music etc. was all part of that same marketing though?

Like I said, I don't follow PROGRESS and never really have beyond odd bits and pieces. To me, I would assume they rightfully looked at the usual British indy show in a leisure centre with people giving it the "SHALL I?????" routine and recognised it was painfully uncool. Going into city centre rock clubs, presenting an edgier product, merch etc. All good moves.

I just think its a bit na√Įve to think a niche indy isn't going to "sell out" to WWE if given a good offer. It's a bit like people going mental when a band they used to like ends up on daytime radio 1 to me.

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OK man I was stupid and fell for it..we all know that in the world of pro wrestling alot of shit isn't how it looks on the surface but they pushed so hard to try and prove they were legit all about British wrestling and doing the best for the fans it was hard not to get swept up in it all and actually give something the benifit of the doubt and trust them. 

That's not being a mark it's just me wanting more than ever to be able to continue to watch and love an art form that I have loved since I was 8 years old. Wrestling was something I discovered when I was in foster care at 8 and it made me have something to look forward to and take me out of the shit reality of my horrible life at that point and stuck with it ever since 

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1 hour ago, Kfogg1991 said:

Why does that make me a mark for wanting to enjoy something? 

Nothing wrong with being a mark. It's not the dirty word that others would lead you onto to believe it is. If you enjoy something in pro wrestling, you're a mark. We're all marks here, pretty much. It's practically a term of endearment, save for the few folk who still like to use it as some asinine insult.

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6 minutes ago, Ironic Indie Lad said:

Surely the venues, the merch style, the violence, the music etc. was all part of that same marketing though?

Like I said, I don't follow PROGRESS and never really have beyond odd bits and pieces. To me, I would assume they rightfully looked at the usual British indy show in a leisure centre with people giving it the "SHALL I?????" routine and recognised it was painfully uncool. Going into city centre rock clubs, presenting an edgier product, merch etc. All good moves.

I just think its a bit na√Įve to think a niche indy isn't going to "sell out" to WWE if given a good offer. It's a bit like people going mental when a band they used to like ends up on daytime radio 1 to me.

Oh yeah, you're completely right - I was just using it to try and draw a comparison between the time period they could get away with branding themselves in that manner because of their whole style and niche, and now, where they're still trotting the phrasing and branding out whilst simultaneously tweeting out pictures of themselves with Triple H and encouraging their fans to hand out "please come back" chants to guys from NXT. It's a big chunk of reasoning as to why there's now such a big disconnect between the PROGRESS loyalists I referred to in my original post, and the more casual fans like me who have watched a company which was genuinely interesting and engaging turn into WWE UK with more swearing.

And I agree that it's naive to have that standpoint as well. For me, it's not the end of the world. I won't lose sleep about it. It's just disheartening to see a company which had so much momentum become a complete shell of its former self at the behest of the corporate machine.

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Haha not a problem then you see all the time people getting called marks just for the fatal crime of being a fan of something. 

To be honest back in the early days of progress I saw a few people calling bullshit on there whole stance and ethos behind the company 

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BREWDOG ultras are fucking idiots.  Smallman did BREWDOG to make money, anyone who bought into that whole punk rock wrestling bollocks no doubt will be saying in a few months "Well, he might have ripped me off in the past but GAUNTLEY'S new show looks ace and will have that COMMUNITY feel that I really want to be a PART of"

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7 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

BREWDOG ultras are fucking idiots.  Smallman did BREWDOG to make money, anyone who bought into that whole punk rock wrestling bollocks no doubt will be saying in a few months "Well, he might have ripped me off in the past but GAUNTLEY'S new show looks ace and will have that COMMUNITY feel that I really want to be a PART of"

I think it was more a case of fans really not having much to truly be part of and excite them and It was a major case of right time right place with the right product 

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The APOLOGISTS for both are peas in a pod though, 1PW fans were rightly lauded whenever they blindly followed the COMPANY line, and those BREWDOG Ultras are exactly the same except they're the ALTERNATIVE.

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The weird thing is NXTUK basically has killed off most the interest in the UK scene but literally no one has any interest in NXTUK. WWE won't make any money out of it or any real stars. The whole thing seems completely fucking pointless on both WWE's and PROGRESS/ICW/whoever's side.

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NXTUK just seems like a sort of holding cell for UK talent until the British wrestling boom dies down.

It feels to me like WWE saw this big boom in the British wrestling scene with British wrestlers drawing bigger and bigger crowds, promotions selling out bigger and bigger venues. Vince being Vince - hating any form of competition and buying them out if possible as shown with the territories in the 80's - sign a bunch of the top stars, stick them into this weird purgatory called NXTUK - with no plans to ever actually call them up - until all the hype around British wrestling has died down back to where it used to be. Then they won't renew their contracts, and chuck them back to the UK indy scene which will be back to square one. Sure, those guys can use the "former WWE star" when being promoted but it won't do much as they're still nobodies in the grand scheme of things as they were on a show no one watched or cared about. 

Does anyone genuinely believe that anyone except WALTER will ever get to the main roster?

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