How did it end up like this (brit wres scene)

[Kfogg1991]

To be honest I really didn't think this would go any other way. I actually said it on a group on Facebook and a few people jumped on me and said if wouldn't be the case and stop being negative and support the guys that have signed ect ect..... 

we know who Vince is we have seen it Time and time again how he hates anything in wrestling with any sort of large audience or attention but we were told when it first happened that nothing would change and the talent would still be able to work for all the promotions they do now......regal said it on a radio interview but then I think 2/3 months later it of course changed. I agree with the comments above its just a holding pen for the wrestlers until they get bored. 

I think before they all get let go however the wwe will enforce that little buy out clause in the contracts for the companies they are working with so they will buy the company's stick the back catalogue on the network and then let all the wrestlers go. It's such a fucking huge Shame that we have walked into this blind and nieve as fuck but here we are and there's no going back 

[PBWFan]

There are a couple of flaws in your final theory though - first of all I would doubt that any ICW OR progress wrestlers have contracts so wwe wouldn’t be buying any talent out if they did buy said companies.

also - they already are in possession of the tape libraries - it was reported at the time - it’s upload to the network is more or less imminent if this weeks beta tests are anything to go by (ICW fight club popped up this week in a test episode)

[Tamura]

I'll admit to not knowing too much about Progress, as I've tried watching a few shows but always found it not to be to my taste. So excuse anything in this post that isn't accurate.

While Jim Smallman seems to be the public face of the company, I don't think it's accurate to think he pulls all the strings backstage at least not according to the latest Confirmation Statement filed with Companies House:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09700760/filing-history/MzI0MDU2MzA1NWFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

Jon Briley is ultimately the controlling shareholder, with 120 of the 200 shares in the company. I don't know much about Jon's background and if he shares Jim Smallman's punk rock principles, one article I've read says he's Jim's former agent so it's hard to get a handle on where he stands.

Businesses can be funny things. One minute you've been running your family business that's existed for 124 years, the next minute you're losing millions and going into administration and ultimately collapsing completely all because some numpty at Companies House spelt a company name incorrectly:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11372343/Government-in-9-million-payout-after-single-letter-blunder-causes-business-to-collapse.html

Since 2016 there's been continuing, and arguably substantially increasing, worry about the effects of Brexit on the economy. If we go into recession, as seems likely, the leisure industry will take a hit. 

There's been a lot of speculation about the terms of the deal between Progress and WWE, but not much speculation on the alternative. What if Progress had refused the deal? Well you can imagine they'd probably have lost a significant chunk of their talent, as I doubt anyone WWE signed would be allowed to appear for Progress any more. Suddenly they're Paul Heyman putting out ECW on TNN with The Dupps, Chilly Willy et al. 

Ultimately Progress were between a rock and a hard place in my opinion. Maybe they should have stuck to "their" (or should that be just "Jim's"?) principles and turned down WWE? Maybe they wanted to keep delivering shows of a high standard and needed continued access to certain wrestlers in order to do that? 

[Keith Houchen]

4 minutes ago, Tamura said:

Ultimately Progress were between a rock and a hard place in my opinion

A Punk rock and a hardcore place, surely?

[PowerButchi]

Chilly Willy was ace. He was my homeboy. 

[Kfogg1991]

If that's what happened and they ultimately had to take the deal in fear of the mighty scary monster wwe and what it would do they have taken it very well if what your trying to suggest that they had no choice and it wasn't what they wanted to do 

[CAREBEAR LUVVA]

What's all this based on, other than "WWE are cunts cos they nicked my favourites from Progress"? It's a bit unfair to say British wrestling is on its arse just because Progress has gone shit (which happened way before NXT UK existed - it just got more noticeable when some of the bigger names weren't around any more). You know there are tons of promotions in the UK, right? Tons of them. If you're done with Progress, be happy for the lads and lasses who are doing well out of it, and just look elsewhere for your entertainment. There's plenty of great stuff out there.

[Cannibal Man]

just want to add that Chilly Willy was great and used Breathe And Stop by Q Tip as his entrance theme which disqualifies him from any shitlist imaginable forever

[MungoChutney]

I think it's a bit unfair to talk about interest dying out, at least in ICW's case - no idea how PROGRESS are doing recently. ICW had their Shug's Hoose Party double header last weekend and there looked to be a 4 figure crowd in both nights. Add to that the match and storyline quality was higher than it has been for a while and I think something of a resurgence is on the cards for them.

Slagging people off for 'selling out' is silly. Wrestling is a business and if a significant offer is made that will help you provide for your family then knocking that back to 'stick it to the man/WWE' is even sillier.

In ICW's case a lot of the issues have been down to roster turnover and losing the likes of Drew and Damo. But they've rallied from this now I think. It also doesn't hurt that in Grado and Jester they have guys who are reasonably well known to the general public via TV and media exposure. I think they're in a good position to kick on now at ICW having had the sense to downsize after the disappointing numbers for last year's Hydro show.

Edited July 31, 2019 by MungoChutney

[BomberPat]

I won't go too much into my personal issues with PROGRESS - I have my fair share of problems with them, but then was never part of their audience in the first place, so can't say I feel let down or cheated by any of it. 

Ultimately, though, they served a purpose - they had solid branding, marketing experiences from outside of wrestling and so, early on, were able to make things look fresh and different, with a new perspective, and not make the same mistakes that other BritWres promoters had, and were able to give the UK scene (and, more specifically, the London scene) a welcome kick up the arse. The Ospreay/Havoc feud was so well-received that they managed to dine out on that with a reputation as great storytellers, despite never really doing anything else to warrant that reputation. There's an awful lot of people for whom PROGRESS is the be-all and end-all of the British scene, and while that can be frustrating, it speaks volumes to how strong their brand identity was.

Now, though, anyone who followed them for the great stories is fucking off. Anyone who followed them because they were running intimate venues with affordable tickets is fucking off. Anyone who bought 100% into the anti-establishment ethos is fucking off. Sooner or later, they run out of selling points, as they're not offering anything that we can't get elsewhere. If they do have any good ideas, you'd assume they will use them in NXT UK rather than PROGRESS, so they're just left going through the motions.

What's bonkers about it all is that the NXT UK brand seems to have devalued PROGRESS, while adding zero additional value to NXT UK. No fucker watches it, they struggle to flog tickets, and it really puts the lie to the idea that it's the WWE brand that sells and not the stars. Because it's all people we can see elsewhere for less, but under the WWE brand, and we can't be arsed with it. I think they saw that the NXT brand in the US has captured an "indie" market, and figured they could do the same here, but didn't realise how different the "indie" culture really is here.

 

Ultimately, though, the scene is doing fine. There's more to it than just PROGRESS.

Riptide are going from strength to strength. NJPW are running a UK show later this year. Sendai Girls, of all people, just ran Manchester. WAW just drew a crowd of more than 4000. RevPro can still afford to run York Hall multiple times a year, EVE are able to run York Hall, are expanding into other towns, and have a regular gig at the Resistance Gallery. ResGal is able to run wrestling shows most weeks, sometimes several nights a week, and multiple training sessions a week. I know more people in the UK able to make a full-time living from wrestling than at any point before. The scene is "on the map" to a greater extent than it has been in decades.

Some companies are struggling from losing the big draws to NXT UK but, bluntly, those are the promotions who failed to make contingency plans and failed to build their own talent and stories. Every time a name gets signed, there's another talent waiting in the wings for that spot. It falls to promoters to convince the audience that the talent waiting is just as viable a top-flight wrestler as the one who left. Alternatively, you do what PROGRESS used to be great at - you build a great brand identity so that people have enough faith in you that they'll support you no matter what.

 

 

EDIT: One thing I'll add about PROGRESS in terms of the "selling out" vs. "make money to support your family" debate is that there's a risk of this having been short-term gain for long-term loss. Part of WWE's deal with PROGRESS is, reportedly, that they reserve the right to shut down/buy out PROGRESS whenever they choose. Now, maybe the PROGRESS lads have decided it's a risk worth taking, and that NXT UK will be there for them when PROGRESS goes under. But I doubt there's any clause in there to say WWE have to keep those lads on the books when they put their promotion under. So if they shut down PROGRESS, and the next day decide, "actually, we're going to hand NXT UK over to Brookside", Smallman et al are left without their cushy WWE job, and losing their original investment.

Edited July 31, 2019 by BomberPat

[MungoChutney]

The rumour and innuendo, to quote the UKFF's favourite podcasts host, was that the tape libraries or rights were purchased outright for a significant sum. I don't think that would be affected by any future decision to close down a company as it's money in the bank already so to speak.

[Ironic Indie Lad]

No matter who goes to New Japan, NXT or AEW...the UK scene can always rely on David Starr for some reason lmao.

[Accident Prone]

36 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

What's bonkers about it all is that the NXT UK brand seems to have devalued PROGRESS, while adding zero additional value to NXT UK. No fucker watches it, they struggle to flog tickets, and it really puts the lie to the idea that it's the WWE brand that sells and not the stars. Because it's all people we can see elsewhere for less, but under the WWE brand, and we can't be arsed with it. I think they saw that the NXT brand in the US has captured an "indie" market, and figured they could do the same here, but didn't realise how different the "indie" culture really is here.

Bang on the money here. Yeah, I'd love to pay over the odds to see BritWres mid-carders work the house WWE style in a half-empty venue lacking in atmosphere, vibrancy and direction, whilst also supporting WWE's attempts to have the word 'wrestling' exclusively connected with themselves and themselves only.

Imagine if McDonalds implemented a strategy where they wanted the public to immediately associate the term 'fast food' with themselves only. They all ready have most of the public's attention when it comes to burgers, and 'Big Mac' is a universal term used by anybody throwing together their own triple-bun stack (I've heard plenty of people order a Big Mac in Burger King) but they'd be laughed out of the room if they presented Triple H's whacky world map with all the other fast-food joints they were in potential 'working relationships' with.

19 minutes ago, Ironic Indie Lad said:

No matter who goes to New Japan, NXT or AEW...the UK scene can always rely on David Starr for some reason lmao.

That's because David Starr is one of the best in the world. No matter what you think of his politics or his ideas outside of the ring, he is fucking consistent in delivering the goods in any match or story you could possibly ask for.

[Ironic Indie Lad]

8 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

David Starr is one of the best in the world.

A worrying post. I have contacted the relevant authorities.

[simonworden]

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

 

 

EDIT: One thing I'll add about PROGRESS in terms of the "selling out" vs. "make money to support your family" debate is that there's a risk of this having been short-term gain for long-term loss. Part of WWE's deal with PROGRESS is, reportedly, that they reserve the right to shut down/buy out PROGRESS whenever they choose. Now, maybe the PROGRESS lads have decided it's a risk worth taking, and that NXT UK will be there for them when PROGRESS goes under. But I doubt there's any clause in there to say WWE have to keep those lads on the books when they put their promotion under. So if they shut down PROGRESS, and the next day decide, "actually, we're going to hand NXT UK over to Brookside", Smallman et al are left without their cushy WWE job, and losing their original investment.

Would WWE put a clause into their contracts that they couldn't set up another promotion immediately do you think? IF the tape library is gone then there isn't much else worth keeping that over time couldn't be redirected to another brand/ company. Yes i'm sure some fans might get lost in the shift but if Progress became "Progression" or "Improvement" wrestling but running the same venues etc then it's a non issue, However i'm certain WWE aren't that stupid and if they are going to pay off promoters it will be worth the promoters while and with a non-compete clause.