The Smackers Thread

[Guest]

As someone who has only seen the YouTube clips of some of their segments, I have to ask what’s the benefit other than a “moment” of Sami beating Roman over 2 year reign by time mania comes around? What does he do next? Lose it back on the next smackdown? 
 

you shouldn’t build streaks or record reigns if you don’t have someone to star make by breaking it. It should really matter and be something that person carries with them. If you don’t, then you get a repeat of Lesnar breaking the streak that added nothing to him as a threat as he was already the biggest. Instead it then was 5 months of Heyman managing Cessaro and talking about a guy who wasn’t there. it’s not just about the match, it should be about what follows and I see nothing in Zayn that says he’s the next guy for any length of time. I’m tired of gratitude moments, give me a plan and a follow up from wrestling again 

[BomberPat]

23 minutes ago, Louch said:

It should really matter and be something that person carries with them. If you don’t, then you get a repeat of Lesnar breaking the streak that added nothing to him as a threat as he was already the biggest. 

I kind of disagree with this; I think Lesnar needed the streak to rebuild that sense of him being the final boss. He'd been dicking about in an interminable feud with Triple H for the better part of a year, and the "special attraction" element of him only working the odd show here and there was starting to wear thin, as that wasn't really the norm yet. It's ending the streak and then the Summerslam match with John Cena that cemented him as something completely above the rest of the roster and re-established his aura, and I don't think there was anyone else on the roster that would have had any equivalent benefit from ending the Streak.

As for the benefit of Sami beating Roman, it's an odd question - it's an underdog babyface standing up to and defeating a dominant champion on the biggest show of the year. I don't think it's the direction they'll take, but if they did, why would he have to lose immediately afterwards? Why would a face turn, standing up for himself against the bully and then beating him to win the title, after months of storytelling, be just a "gratitude moment" rather than the sort of long-term plan you want? Why could Sami not be the star you're asking to be made by breaking the streak, even if only for a short while? As long as they don't Daniel Bryan him and give him Kane (or whoever the 2022 equivalent of Kane is, maybe Baron Corbin) as his first challenger, there's no reason they can't get a fun babyface run out of Sami Zayn as champion - particularly as, again, there are two World Titles going round, so it's not an all or nothing, sink or swim situation in putting the belt on him and seeing how far he can run with it. He's a guy who's excelled with pretty much everything he's been given so far, which is a rare quality considering how much shit most people in WWE have been given over the last few years.

[Guest]

But Roman holds both titles and all matches are for both are they not? If he wins you have Sami as THE wwe champion and he’s not the guy you want on good morning America the morning affer looking like a pasty guy they pulled from the crowd. He’s not a main event level star, and wrestling needs to stop pushing those into those roles they don’t fit than forcing it. He’s not even an underdog babyface, he’s a lackey. 

[Lorne Malvo]

25 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

or whoever the 2022 equivalent of Kane is,

Bray Wyatt surely.

[BomberPat]

19 minutes ago, Louch said:

But Roman holds both titles and all matches are for both are they not? If he wins you have Sami as THE wwe champion and he’s not the guy you want on good morning America the morning affer looking like a pasty guy they pulled from the crowd. He’s not a main event level star, and wrestling needs to stop pushing those into those roles they don’t fit than forcing it. He’s not even an underdog babyface, he’s a lackey. 

At some point. they have to either split the titles or properly unify them. Apparently the TV networks want them split, and the logical place to do it would be somewhere between the Rumble and Wrestlemania; potentially using the Rumble and Elimination Chamber to set up two separate challengers, but in any case the sensible thing to do would be to have Reigns defend one championship on night one and one on night two. That way, they can have Reigns, Cody or The Rock or whoever holding one championship, while Sami can win the other.

Right now, Sami is a lackey, but the obvious direction of the story is him turning babyface and standing up to The Bloodline. While the probable route will be him and Kevin Owens facing The Usos, the bigger story would be him against Reigns, and it's mad to have someone who's getting consistent reactions, is capable of brilliant matches, has knocked it out of the park with everything he's been given, and had one of the most well-liked matches at the last Wrestlemania, and has a logical, long-running storyline towards the main event and throw all that away because he doesn't fit an arbitrary idea of what a "star" looks like, or because he'd look out of place on talk shows that he's likely not getting invited to anyway. I don't think there's a blueprint for what a "main event star" looks like - if nothing else, for every star wrestler who fits the bill of what they "should" look like, there's countless forgotten midcarders who ticked all those boxes and were complete wash-outs, yet somehow that never amounts to disproving the rule. In terms of Sami Zayn's role in all this, sure, he's not the top guy, but nor was Mankind, and he still warranted a title run when it made sense.

More broadly, I'm not actually wedded to the idea of Sami vs. Reigns happening at Wrestlemania, or of Sami beating Roman. But at the very least, to not get a moment of Zayn standing up against him in the Elimination Chamber, or challenging unsuccessfully at Backlash for a heartbreaking loss, would be a massive wasted opportunity. 

[Supremo]

Gratitude Era Title wins are when useless pricks like Dolph Ziggler get the belt just because it’s their turn. No particular build up. No momentum. No groundswell of emotion. They get the briefcase, they get the belt, they get their four months, then they get fucked off.

Sami Zayn winning the World Title as the conclusion to the Honorary Uce storyline is the antithesis of that. It’s the most logical, cathartic ending to a genuinely brilliant, clever, multi-layered, interesting storyline. I haven’t stopped thinking about that T-shirt segment since it happened. Genuinely one of the best segments they’ve ever done.

I feel like I’m saying this all the time at the moment, but if Hunter really wants to earn those fruit baskets then he needs to truly set himself apart, beyond just letting people say, “belt.”  Here’s his chance. Do what Vince hasn’t been able to do in decades and tell a proper story; beginning, middle and end. That T-shirt angle was a Wrestlemania angle. The logical end point to that angle is Sami Zayn realising what an abusive relationship he’s in and start standing up for himself. Roman giving him a shitty little T-shirt. The patronising bastard. Sami needs to take his head off.

Fumble this and Trips is no better than Vince, where endless potential is forever wasted because they can’t ever stick the landing and always allow even the best of storylines to fizzle out into nothing. They’re the kings of the big angle to start a storyline, only to completely fuck it up in the end. These fuckers screwed over Daniel Bryan at Summerslam so that Big Show could do the Yes chant and then Batista would win at Wrestlemania. That was the story they thought would be satisfying until fate forced their hand. Let’s see if things have really changed.

And then what happens afterwards? WWE finally have a babyface champion people actually root for. He’s already getting huge reactions. Imagine if he finally stood up to these pricks.

Also, not that it matters at all, but anyone arguing Sami isn’t the guy to put on breakfast shows has clearly never listened to him on podcasts or press interviews before. The lad’s a great, articulate talker. “Hello, I’m the the articulate, intelligent, affable Seth Rogan-lookalike who literally dedicates huge portions of my life to charity work.”

Strap him up. Justice 4 Sami.

[Snitsky's back acne]

Zayn v Roman doesn't have to be paid off at Mania. You could (and should) still do Rock v Reigns at Mania. Rock loses and then you can pay off Sami / Reigns later. Think Foley v Orton 2004. Everyone thought it would be paid off at Mania but instead we had the cracker at Backlash. It could be something similar here. 

[DavidB6937]

Yeah, no one wants Sami to win the title just because he "deserves it" or whatever. He wouldn't be coming out of nowhere for it. He's literally there at the forefront of the biggest storyline in the company. He's the most entertaining and compelling guy they've got right now.

If he did get a title shot it'd be the most logical step they've taken with anyone new in that role in quite some time.

[Guest]

Yeah, but what next? That’s my question. He’s gonna get as much build from a long glorious defeat than he is a win. Then give him and owens the tag win, but wasting a two year streak on a small ginger guy isn’t gonna change how much business they do a year later. Whoever beats that streak should be the guy who can do that

[BomberPat]

10 minutes ago, Louch said:

Then give him and owens the tag win, but wasting a two year streak on a small ginger guy isn’t gonna change how much business they do a year later. Whoever beats that streak should be the guy who can do that

But that requires there being someone who you can guarantee would "change the business" a year after being Reigns, and I'm not convinced that there is. They would also require a supporting cast to work with in order to make "what next?" anything other than another rematch or rehash.

[DavidB6937]

26 minutes ago, Louch said:

Yeah, but what next? That’s my question. He’s gonna get as much build from a long glorious defeat than he is a win. Then give him and owens the tag win, but wasting a two year streak on a small ginger guy isn’t gonna change how much business they do a year later. Whoever beats that streak should be the guy who can do that

"What next?" is a question you can ask of ANYONE. See Hangman Page in AEW. The build up there was perfect. There was nothing that suggested giving him the title win was the wrong move. But what next?

Who's to say Sami Zayn can't be that Daniel Bryan babyface guy that everyone wants to get behind? What do they have to lose by trying something a little different? People are always saying they're sick of Lesnar/Reigns/repeat etc.

They need to take chances at some point. Why not on the guy who has been consistently brilliant and versatile and who always entertains?

[Mr_Danger]

There’s no harm in having Sami as your top baby face for 6 months. You can turn him from lackey to viable underdog threat in about a month of straight clean wins where he shuns his buddies to prove himself. Let him go over Reigns, have Bloodline shenanigans backfire in the rematch then let Reigns disappear for a bit and elevate Jey for a short program. There’s loads of places you can go from there and if Sami runs out of steam for whatever reason they’ve pressed the reset button on the long title run and they can build something new.
 

[Nick James]

Roman should be pulling double duty over a 2-night Wrestlemania for both titles. The match Vs The Rock one night, Sami the other. Put Roman over The Rock on night 1, then close with a feel good moment of a Sami win on night 2. 

Sami really does feel like lightning in a bottle at the moment, the most organically over person in the entire company whose storyline has been ongoing for just shy of a year. 

Heck, even do the turn on him soon, big beat down and he can disappear for a few weeks, return as a surprise enterant in the Chamber. Have Jey do it, without the rest of the Bloodline involved, more layers to the storyline, they have already played out how Jey is a hothead and can't control himself. There's loads of ways they can go with it and for once, it's enjoyable to think of the scenarios rather than know it won't happen because of a plan. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

"What next?" is a question you can ask of ANYONE. See Hangman Page in AEW. The build up there was perfect. There was nothing that suggested giving him the title win was the wrong move. But what next?

Who's to say Sami Zayn can't be that Daniel Bryan babyface guy that everyone wants to get behind? What do they have to lose by trying something a little different? People are always saying they're sick of Lesnar/Reigns/repeat etc.

They need to take chances at some point. Why not on the guy who has been consistently brilliant and versatile and who always entertains?

Hangman is the perfect example of why not to unless you have a follow up. You can have the perfect build, but if nothing follows it was all for nothing

[BomberPat]

Kevin Sullivan's golden rule was "if you can't book the rematch, and you can't book the finish, don't book the match", and I think that's a good rule of thumb. But in terms of "what comes next", I'd say "what comes next for Roman Reigns" is a bigger question than what comes next for Sami Zayn as champion.

If I wanted to fantasy book, though - I expect Reigns will likely take time off after Wrestlemania, but if he doesn't, you can easily get at least one Reigns/Zayn rematch, maybe with an added gimmick/stipulation; the extent of that comes down to how often they want Roman Reigns to be losing, though, so it may be easier to just take him off TV for a while, or skip the rematch and move him on to the next thing.

If they haven't already exhausted the Sami Zayn/Bloodline story, he can continue to work programmes alongside Kevin Owens against The Usos. At some point, you may as well turn Kevin Owens heel and run back the Owens/Zayn feud. Looking through the rest of the Smackdown roster, assuming no call-ups from NXT, no new signings, no one being given a major push out of nowhere, and nobody being drafted over from RAW, you have Drew McIntyre, Karrion Kross, Braun Strowman and Bray Wyatt all floating around the main event picture, Sheamus and Gunther a step below that. Between the duration of Reigns' run on top, and the formula that most of his matches have followed, I'd say there's a far fresher line-up of potential matches for Sami Zayn as babyface champion for, let's say, a six month run than there is anything left for Roman Reigns to continue doing if he comes out of Wrestlemania still as champion.