UFC 229: Khabib vs McGregor

[Keith Houchen]

Wouldn't be surprised if the top brass paid that fine for him, they get quite the return on that investment come the rematch. 

[Egg Shen]

13 minutes ago, d-d-d-dAz said:

‘Training stand up’ is a weird phrase.

Also, 8 years ago - Brock Lesnar headlined 2 PPV’s, Chael Sonnen fought Anderson Silva and Dan Hardy wouldn’t shut the fuck up in the build to his fight with GSP.

And that’s ignoring Josh Koschek who also tried the same act against GSP.

Oh, and Liddel/Ortiz on TUF.

2010 UFC was a trash bonanza.

The UFC has always been a trash bonanza. One of its first stars was Tank Abbott for fuck sake.

Trash bonanza is what we want.

[David]

2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Wouldn't be surprised if the top brass paid that fine for him, they get quite the return on that investment come the rematch. 

Fucking right they do. If and when a rematch happens we'll see Danis and those goons from Khabib's corner banned most likely.

[jimufctna24]

22 minutes ago, BrodyGraham said:

There's always been shit talking and there always will be. It should be used as window dressing though.

I'm commenting on a sub thread on a Pro wrestling forum. I think I get it.

Personally though, as someone who spent the better part of 8 years training stand up and bjj I get a little bit sick in my mouth at the direction the UFC has moved in. 

Trash talking has been a major part of the UFC for 20 years (perhaps longer)

You had the Ortiz vs Lions Den feud in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Ortiz the UFC's biggest star from 99-2003 and was just as abrasive as McGregor is today. Then you had Phil Baroni crop up in the early 2000s, who again, was just as big a trash talker as McGregor (he even took a swipe at a ref and waved American flags in the face of a Russian's camp after knocking him senseless). Baroni was featured on almost every UFC highlight package during that time. With the advent of TUF, Lesnar, Sonnen, etc, trash talking and shitehousery became an even bigger part of the game. 

The UFC have never shied away from promoting a fighter who has the gift of the gab.

 

[Carbomb]

Also, though, shithousery shouldn't be the rule of things all the way through. This is a wrestling forum, so people should remember that when things are all the same, it gets boring quickly. Sometimes, you do just want a competition between two talents who respect each other, otherwise the shithousery won't stand out, and vice versa. Not to mention that not all guys are either up for it or good at it - DJ being the most often-discussed example. Forced shithousery is shit shithousery.

[David]

3 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Also, though, shithousery shouldn't be the rule of things all the way through. This is a wrestling forum, so people should remember that when things are all the same, it gets boring quickly. Sometimes, you do just want a competition between two talents who respect each other, otherwise the shithousery won't stand out, and vice versa. Not to mention that not all guys are either up for it or good at it - DJ being the most often-discussed example. Forced shithousery is shit shithousery.

If they go with a rematch, I honestly believe it may sell well, but it'll be a letdown because we won't see the same shenanigans, and Conor can't approach the fight in the same way after getting manhandled.

We need to remember that, take away all the outside shit, this was a pretty one-sided fight.

[Carbomb]

3 minutes ago, David said:

If they go with a rematch, I honestly believe it may sell well, but it'll be a letdown because we won't see the same shenanigans, and Conor can't approach the fight in the same way after getting manhandled.

We need to remember that, take away all the outside shit, this was a pretty one-sided fight.

Yeah, only way I can see the promotion going is if UFC market McG as the underdog-on-a-mission, training to overcome this monolithic obstacle against whom he has a grudge but very little chance.

EDIT: Knowing McG's gift of the gab, he might try to frame it as "No maaan hiz evah baiten me twoice! Oi know heu ta bait ya dis toim!"

[Dead Mike]

I've a feeling we're going to see GSP pushing for a match with Khabib. The seed was planted before this fight with him saying he'd be interested in facing the winner & with Khabib looking to get a suspension it gives GSP time to get his weight in order. Conor coming off a one-sided loss takes the shine off that match-up & GSP doesn't need the cash so any talk about 'money fights' is kind of redundant. After him coming back & beating (champion) Bisping it seems fitting that his next fight would be against another champ. Plus, you now have a divisive fighter in Khabib going up against universally loved GSP. If this happens though it sucks for Dr Ferguson.

 

 

[Egg Shen]

5 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Also, though, shithousery shouldn't be the rule of things all the way through. This is a wrestling forum, so people should remember that when things are all the same, it gets boring quickly. Sometimes, you do just want a competition between two talents who respect each other, otherwise the shithousery won't stand out, and vice versa. Not to mention that not all guys are either up for it or good at it - DJ being the most often-discussed example. Forced shithousery is shit shithousery.

The DJ thing doesn't always apply though. Randy Couture was never a shit talker yet is one of the most beloved UFC fighters ever, see also GSP. DJ's issue was that he was so far ahead of the pack yet had no real rival to make people care, plus he's kind of unlikeable to go along with it.

At the end of the day, you need a wide range of characters in the sport, thats what keeps it interesting.

[David]

Just now, Egg Shen said:

The DJ thing doesn't always apply though. Randy Couture was never a shit talker yet is one of the most beloved UFC fighters ever, see also GSP.

Yeah, those were different era dudes though, for the most part. Who's popular to that level today without talking shit?

[Carbomb]

5 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

The DJ thing doesn't always apply though. Randy Couture was never a shit talker yet is one of the most beloved UFC fighters ever, see also GSP. DJ's issue was that he was so far ahead of the pack yet had no real rival to make people care, plus he's kind of unlikeable to go along with it.

At the end of the day, you need a wide range of characters in the sport, thats what keeps it interesting.

My point was simply that shithousery isn't always necessary, and even when it is, there are just some guys with no aptitude or inclination for it, and just want to be known to be good at what the entire sport is about. Whilst I accept the truth of it, I do also find it irritating that humans are such magpies, including myself, that we can't just be drawn to the competition right in front of us - it's two guys training to be the best at their respective disciplines, and they're risking their health to earn money via our approval and entertainment, so what is it about us as a species that doesn't see that as more than enough?

That's a philosophical question, though - like I say, I accept that the truth of the situation is we are like that, and should adjust our expectations and critiques accordingly.

3 minutes ago, David said:

Yeah, those were different era dudes though, for the most part. Who's popular to that level today without talking shit?

The obvious one is GSP, but then I also remember the discussion we had before, and you made the point that he's from a previous era and probably wouldn't do so well in terms of popularity if he were to debut in the current era.

I can't think of anyone who's popular without talking any shit at all, but I'd say DC does alright without talking absolutely loads. Hell, we may even see his match with Lewis draw over joking about Popeye's Chicken. Did Cain trash-talk much, or Overeem? I didn't tend to follow their match build-ups. Also, I don't remember Wonderboy talking much trash either. Gaethje until recently seemed to have become popular without it (i.e. through his insane matches), but then one could argue he's someone who should, because shithousery could turn out to be less costly to his health than his fighting style.

[Egg Shen]

No one really, but there's just a lack of PPV stars at present in general. It can definitely happen again though, but to become a star in MMA without being prepared to engage in some kind of verbal warfare or call your own shot is tough.

[David]

I think there's a wrestling-esque description that can be applied to MMA at the moment, which is when someone (can't remember who to be honest) commented back at the end of the Monday Night Wars that the problem was both sides had ramped shit up to such a degree that there was no way to top what they were doing, and that when they couldn't the fans were ultimately disappointed.

Today we have everyone wearing ridiculous suits, shades and trying to bust out "a gimmick" because they see what Conor does, the money involved, and the way the UFC "encourage" fighters to promote themselves if they want to be considered for title shots and suchlike.

Problem is, aside from Conor, who is basically turning his own personality up to 10 (where have we heard that before?) the rest are the drizzling shits. Why the fuck is Justin Gaethje sitting there telling James Vick that he earns a ton more dough when he's on 110k to show?  

Dudes shouldn't be talking about money when they're not making millions. There's a reason we had the Million Dollar Man and not the Thousand Dollar Man.

I have this image of various fighters sitting backstage with tears rolling down their cheeks, saying to Dana "Just tell me who you want me to be, and that's who I'll be! Promise!"

[Egg Shen]

There are exceptions, i think Israel Adesanya is the guy with most crossover potential right now. He's a shit talker but does it so naturally and with charisma that you cant help but pay attention. He's a guy doing it right.

[David]

What we need is for people to go back to actually being themselves. Bin the suits and the shades and stop trying to look like a million dollar baller when you make 30k a fight.

If you're a thick-necked wrestler from Ohio, then come to the pressers in jeans, a t-shirt and a camo baseball cap. If you're a city slicker from Montreal with French lineage then fire up that pencil moustache and the wardrobe from GQ.

Fighters need to stop talking about money when they make next to fuck all, and they need to just be themselves and crank it up a notch. 

If you don't like talking shit, then that's okay. There's no shame in being an RDA or Robbie Lawler who flits between mid card to main event. You keep winning and you'll get a shot eventually, and make decent, if not great, coin.

Bottom line is, you can't make the fans like you by pretending to be someone you're not. The only thing worse than a guy saying in his post-fight interview that he respects his opponent etc is a guy pretending he's crazy when he isn't.

There's a middle ground. Get on that mic and say you respect the hell out of so and so, but you think you can break them up and take them out. You don't need to be swearing, and swaggering. Point to the dudes last performance and say it was terrible, and that you'd smack him upside the head if you got the chance.

But at some point this all has to even off. We can't have guys strolling around looking like someone dressed up as McG for Halloween. There's only one McG, so go and do what he did, which is figure out something that works for you, and make it happen.