Paid Members Supremo Posted May 18 Paid Members Share Posted May 18 It doesn’t have to be a binary assessment. Undertaker had some amazing matches. Undertaker had a lot of dog shit matches. If you want to slag him off in an all or nothing manner it’s much easier to just discuss his real life personality. Absolute whopper of a man. Everyone spent decades imagining the stories and insight he could one day bestow on us when he retired and dropped the gimmick. Only for him to reveal himself as a MAGA MAN CHILD, the shittest takes this side of Bully Ray, with a Nintendo phobia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McEnroe Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 5 hours ago, herbie747 said: I think Taker has only ever had 3 good matches - all against HBK (KOTR, WM x 2). His matches with Triple H were plodding and boring, same with Austin. His HIAC with Foley was a spectacle for sure - but that match was just Foley taking 3 big bumps (off the cell, through the cell, backwards onto tacks).  Never rated him. You cannot be serious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 16 hours ago, herbie747 said: I think Taker has only ever had 3 good matches - all against HBK (KOTR, WM x 2). I’m assuming your confusing the HBK Hell In A Cell match, which happened at Bad Blood, with the Mankind one. Not to say Taker was amazing, and we’re all entitled to an opinion, but I’d be surprised if none of his matches with Bret, Mankind, RVD, Lesnar, Angle, Orton, Batista, Edge or Punk made it to most people’s mark for “good” excluding the aforementioned Cell match, or matches with Austin and Hunter… of which, the Mania 17 match is almost forgotten and for my money a very good match indeed. My personal favourites were a few of the less famous Mankind matches - the return at Survivors 96, the No Holds Barred rematch on Raw, the title match at In Your House. Yes, four men involved, but Final Four was amazing. His match with Vader at Canadian Stampede I could watch over and over. The match at Ground Zero with Shawn is virtually forgotten but it’s chaotic and exciting until the disappointing non finish. Angle vs Rock vs Taker at Vengeance 2002 was very good and he gave Cena quite a bit in defeat at Vengeance 2003. Finally, I have a soft spot for the Orton match at Mania 21 because they fooled me that “the streak” (ugh) was about to end. Oh, and even if the consensus is that pre-Mankind “Dead Man” was largely crap, I still get a kick out him burying Jake at Mania VIII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 2 hours ago, air_raid said: I’m assuming your confusing the HBK Hell In A Cell match, which happened at Bad Blood, with the Mankind one.  Yes apologies, it was at Bad Blood.  I think in a general sense I just find him slow and plodding. It's not the style of wrestling I like, so unless he's with someone incredible, I find his matches boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 He had a great match with Kurt Angle, I think it was the 2006 No Way Out one. I remember being gripped by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 2 minutes ago, gmoney said: He had a great match with Kurt Angle, I think it was the 2006 No Way Out one. I remember being gripped by that. Yeah that was a corker. @air_raid is your man to fill in the blanks but I’m sure Angle vs Taker was originally planned for WrestleMania that year but they had to shuffle the deck (possibly due to Eddie’s death?) so we basically got a full on WrestleMania match a month early at No Way Out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members TheBurningRed Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 He had a cracking ladder match on Raw with Jeff Hardy for the undisputed title. Short but sweet build to the match too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merzbow Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 14 minutes ago, TheBurningRed said: He had a cracking ladder match on Raw with Jeff Hardy for the undisputed title. Short but sweet build to the match too. Yeah that match could have been the main event making of Jeff Hardy, yeah he was battered but he looked a million bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, Merzbow said: Yeah that match could have been the main event making of Jeff Hardy, yeah he was battered but he looked a million bucks. I know it’s hardly reflective of the match but the way JR says “Climb the ladder, kid” boiled my piss for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarlettChad Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 2 hours ago, Merzbow said: Yeah that match could have been the main event making of Jeff Hardy, yeah he was battered but he looked a million bucks. In hindsight, I'm kinda glad it wasn't. He'd quit months later to do Meth. Jeff is his own worst enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 (edited) 7 hours ago, wandshogun09 said: Yeah that was a corker. @air_raid is your man to fill in the blanks but I’m sure Angle vs Taker was originally planned for WrestleMania that year but they had to shuffle the deck (possibly due to Eddie’s death?) so we basically got a full on WrestleMania match a month early at No Way Out. Yes, Eddy dying then later Dave getting injured prompted wholesale changes. It was meant to be Batista vs Orton for the title and two Raw vs SmackDown matches underneath would have had HBK vs Eddy (returned to full blown heel in jealous pursuit of Dave’s gold) and Taker vs Angle - who wouldn’t have returned to SmackDown had Dave not been crocked. Cena vs HHH was the only one of the top matches that went on as planned. Edited May 19 by air_raid Hot! Spicy! Tastes great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 27 minutes ago, air_raid said: and two Raw vs SmackDown matches underneath would have had HBK vs Eddy (returned to full blown heel in jealous pursuit of Dave’s gold) and Taker vs Angle Can you imagine that? As it stands, I don’t remember much of that year’s WrestleMania. But if Taker and Angle had that same match they had at No Way Out plus Shawn Michaels vs Eddie Guerrero which you know would’ve been incredible, it might’ve gone down as one of the all timers. Or at the very least in that WMX bracket of having two absolutely killer matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members TheBurningRed Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 36 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said: I don’t remember much of that year’s WrestleMania Edge vs Foley and Shawn Michaels vs Vince were the standouts but both gimmick matches and Rey winning the world title. It was quite a lacklustre Mania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 21 hours ago, Supremo said: It doesn’t have to be a binary assessment. Undertaker had some amazing matches. Undertaker had a lot of dog shit matches. If you want to slag him off in an all or nothing manner it’s much easier to just discuss his real life personality. Absolute whopper of a man. Everyone spent decades imagining the stories and insight he could one day bestow on us when he retired and dropped the gimmick. Only for him to reveal himself as a MAGA MAN CHILD, the shittest takes this side of Bully Ray, with a Nintendo phobia. Yeah. My biggest problem with him is the shite culture backstage that he was largely responsible for. For all the bad things you can say about Hulk Hogan when he was on top, at least he didn't tart about literally holding court over people for imagined disrespect. Imagine being an accountant, getting hired for a top accountancy firm and then getting told you've got to carry Steve's water or give him your air miles because he's worked there longer? And if you don't then you need to attend "Court"? It's nonsense. Perhaps the stupidest thing about it is that if that had been the culture in WCW when 'Taker broke in, he'd never have made it in wrestling. Travelling with the Ring Announcer because you don't want to associate with The Boys? Accusing a veteran like Buzz Sawyer of being a thief? True or not, a rookie would never have gotten away with that in Attitude Era WWF. In the spirit of unpopular opinions, I'd actually make the argument that he was a more damaging presence backstage than folk like the Hogan, the Kliq, etc, who regularly get blamed for being toxic. At least their influence was relatively short lived, and tended to be entirely focused on their own interests. They weren't fucking with people to the point that they quit the industry, just for the sake of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members herbie747 Posted May 19 Paid Members Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, unfitfinlay said: Yeah. My biggest problem with him is the shite culture backstage that he was largely responsible for. For all the bad things you can say about Hulk Hogan when he was on top, at least he didn't tart about literally holding court over people for imagined disrespect. Imagine being an accountant, getting hired for a top accountancy firm and then getting told you've got to carry Steve's water or give him your air miles because he's worked there longer? And if you don't then you need to attend "Court"? It's nonsense. Perhaps the stupidest thing about it is that if that had been the culture in WCW when 'Taker broke in, he'd never have made it in wrestling. Travelling with the Ring Announcer because you don't want to associate with The Boys? Accusing a veteran like Buzz Sawyer of being a thief? True or not, a rookie would never have gotten away with that in Attitude Era WWF. In the spirit of unpopular opinions, I'd actually make the argument that he was a more damaging presence backstage than folk like the Hogan, the Kliq, etc, who regularly get blamed for being toxic. At least their influence was relatively short lived, and tended to be entirely focused on their own interests. They weren't fucking with people to the point that they quit the industry, just for the sake of it. Yeah Taker is a scumbag. I remember reading in MVPs book that he had to go to wrestlers court because he got given a free pair of headphones (left over from some sort of promotion they did) and was told he should have left them for a more senior member of the locker room and he got heat for accepting them. A pair of fucking headphones!? The whole situation was such manchild bullshit, with Taker being at the top of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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